Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[RiceisNice]

Assuming that that is the only reason I'm arguing it is very presumptuous. I'm giving good examples and trying to get my point across. Can you address the examples I have given and go more in depth as to why you believe they aren't valid and how I'm missing the point please? I'm genuinely curious.

You're explaining to me what elitism is when that's not the point I'm getting. I'm saying it's not elitism when people have the expectation of people understanding the basics of a game they're playing (espesically at level 60). You already tried to pointed it out as such in your original post. That's what's causing so much problem with both sides because you're wrongly/loosely using the term.

Again this is subject to opinion. You see it as a big deal. And I'm sorry but your whole attitude towards players who don't use skills "What an idiot" is rather distasteful. There is always a good excuse and while the BLM may not have had a good excuse (I don't remember if they actually gave theirs or not, just that they weren't happy) just because you don't agree with it doesn't automatically make it bad.

Actually,not having a basic understanding of what you're doing is a bit of a problem, and can become a bigger problem depending on the circumstances. And I don't mean "what an idiot" as a direct insult, but that's the best way to sum it up. They done goofed, and everyone can move on rather than making up excuses or victimizing themselves for it.

Maybe I was tunnel visioning but that doesn't make it any less of a valid excuse. I am very sorry for having even brought it up though because it seems to be the one thing people have latched onto instead of my arguments actually explaining excuses the BLM could have had for not using Enochian.

Ignorance is never a good excuse. But I like said, it's a mistake, you done goofed, move on and stop defending it or justifying it. That sort of mentality is a problem across the board when people are not willing or doesn't want to contribute past the bare minimum in any form of party play.

I think Critical-Limit has a good point. It feels like you just can't accept that others may have valid excuses for not using skills or playing the game to your standards that you are in fact tunnel visioning yourself instead of trying to understand from their perspective. You have already made it clear that you only think they are idiots for not knowing skills existed or for not using them. Can you please explain to me why exactly it gets to you so much? If it's because of these people slowing down your dungeon runs tons of good solutions have been scattered throughout this thread and the forums in general.

I didn't consider or call them to be idiots, but rather summarized it (due to a lack for a better word) is that the situation is "what an idiot", similar to what you'd see for people balantly ignoring warning signs or very standard instructions in their setting. And now you're taking my words out of context (having a basic understanding of getting skills as you level) and applying it to a dungeon setting, which is an entirely different premise. It takes a lot more than missing their 50-60 skills to be able to slow a party run that long, otherwise you have bigger underlying problems.

Not to mention critical limit's post (the one you linked) is also taking my reply out of context or in the wrong regard.

[TheUltimateSeph]

I didn't consider or call them to be idiots, but rather summarized it (due to a lack for a better word) is that the situation is "what an idiot", similar to what you'd see for people balantly ignoring warning signs or very standard instructions in their setting. And now you're taking my words out of context (having a basic understanding of getting skills as you level) and applying it to a dungeon setting, which is an entirely different premise. It takes a lot more than missing their 50-60 skills to be able to slow a party run that long, otherwise you have bigger underlying problems.

Except that there are no instructions. There is no in game message telling the player they will have new skills. There is a big difference in ignoring something and not knowing about something.

The first bolded part, I'm sorry I fail to see the difference in the two. Both are referring to the person as an idiot regardless of the difference in wording.

Choosing between dodging mechanics or taking the hit depends on how well 1. the healer is healing and 2. will you take anymore damage in the next moments before being able to heal up? if you can take a hit and wont take damage again for a while then sure take the hit.

May not have been asked to me but if a BLM is using the 2.0 rotation and nothing else they shouldn't be in any level 60 content at all. If you are attempting to do your level 60 rotation im fine with that, but when you do your level 50 rotation just because you find it nerve racking or simply don't want to bother to even try to learn it then you are being completely rude to the other people and have no place being there.

The healer at the time was me so I knew I would be able to keep them up. In that case I guess it's fine I guess, though this could very well fall under the whole "Healer having to pick up the slack from dps wanting to stand in aoes" argument. There was no communication beforehand either that they weren't going to dodge the aoes so when I suddenly see them start taking big hits I am caught a little off guard.

In regards to a BLM using only their 2.0 rotation and nothing else not belonging in level 60 content I might agree with you if only it was required that they MUST use their 3.0 rotation to complete the content. If you have people who know their 2.0 rotations well, even if everyone in the party only uses their 2.0 rotations, they will still clear the content in a reasonable amount of time (and this will vary from class to class). Blame this one on SE for making it too easy. If the content could NOT be cleared without the use of 3.0 rotations then that would be a totally valid argument as to why people not using them should be completely unacceptable.

[Kaurie]

Except that there are no instructions. There is no in game message telling the player they will have new skills. There is a big difference in ignoring something and not knowing about something.

The first bolded part, I'm sorry I fail to see the difference in the two. Both are referring to the person as an idiot regardless of the difference in wording.

There are no in-game instructions, there is just inductive reasoning. Historically, you gained a job skill every 5 levels and class skills more often. You now gained 5 new levels, it is a logical conclusion that you would have at least 1 new skill. You check your quest journal and see where your last quest ended off, and teleport there. Now you see a ! and talk to the NPC to see a 50 quest, upon completion you'll get a 52 and 54. This is the worst case scenario, if you hadn't known that they moved job quests to 2 levels rather than 5, and/or if you did not take a look at the patch notes.

Honestly, I am surprised you were able to find the MSQ to Ishgard with the line of reasoning you are suggesting is normal.

[RiceisNice]

Except that there are no instructions. There is no in game message telling the player they will have new skills. There is a big difference in ignoring something and not knowing about something.

The first bolded part, I'm sorry I fail to see the difference in the two. Both are referring to the person as an idiot regardless of the difference in wording.

If you're really talking semantics (instead of understanding where I'm coming from), then you really are just arguing for the sake of arguing now :l

Honestly, I am surprised you were able to find the MSQ to Ishgard with the line of reasoning you are suggesting is normal.

There's also this, and the job quest npcs are instanced so you wouldn't see them on the map for the most part.

[Andrea]

In regards to a BLM using only their 2.0 rotation and nothing else not belonging in level 60 content I might agree with you if only it was required that they MUST use their 3.0 rotation to complete the content.

Just because you don't need to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

A tank can just spam flash and nothing else. Should they do it? No of course not they should help kill things.
A dragoon could just do heavy thrust and nothing else and clear a dungeon. Should they do it? No.

It not only makes the run take longer than it should but you are also slowing down 3-7 other people because you simply refuse to learn a new rotation. Im sorry but that is 100% rude in anyway no matter how someone tries to defend it.