Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Jynx]

I simply will make a note to not party with you that simple and we can both go and find the group of players we mesh with.

The sad fact is that this has little impact on anyone. Chances are anyone your actually group up and party with is going to at least do enough to not look like they are asleep.

Some people in this thread think (not you) that clicking a button that groups you up RANDOMLY with next to anonymous players (Different servers) they are going to get people who are all going to be on their A game or even care what they think or expect of them. The real problem isn't the lack of DPS gauges and whatnot it's the unrealistic expectations people have of others when they are joining random people who have zero requirement or socially driven consequences to make them play with even a ounce of effort.

How is a damage meter going to influence these people, it's not.

Regardless of your "hard numbers" or lack of, they can still kick you for calling them out if they have the support of more than themselves in 4 man content. Parsers wont help the problem at all, in my opinion they would only add another layer to the entire mess giving people another large stick to beat people with. Parsers are great for endgame content, but if your parsing people in a roulette dungeon just to call them out because they aren't going all out?

You need to start thinking about running with preformed groups.

[Lego3400]

No. Yoshida specifically said that you would be able to ask for a specific training level openly, like "only TL 8 or higher", which is pretty much akin to "1200+ dps or gtfo". Which also means kicking sub-perfoming players for that reason becomes justified.

Sure you can ask, but I doubt the game will actively support it's use by having a special field in the party finder. It would be like creating a group where everyone is required to wear the hempen underpants in the description and kicking players that aren't wearing it. It's a verbal (or wirtten as the case may be) contract between players which SE is loathe to involve themselves with outside speical cases. Aside from sub par preformace (Which you can't call them out on without getting banned yourself for publicly admiting you can see their numbers) there would be no way to tell. It's a win win. Those that use it to be elitist jerks will get banned when they get reported and players will use it to improve themselves.

[Ashkendor]

Well when you get reported one day I'll be here having fun while you are sitting raging you can't play anymore

You really think he's gonna get banned for saying something like "my back hurts from carrying you," in a macro? o.O

also FFXIV is designed to for solo players. Use of Duty Finder is strongly encoraged by the game itself and many quests cannot be done with a group due to private instancing. It's a pain in the butt to try and play with a friend.

FFXIV is not designed to be a 100% solo game. It's designed so solo players can progress but you have to party with others in order to do so, whether that be through the Duty Finder or with friends or acquaintances. Once you join a dungeon, you have to think about more than just yourself. Your actions impact the rest of the players in the instance and you should be taking that into account as you play. A truly solo-oriented game would just throw you into an instance with 3 NPC's instead and it wouldn't matter one whit.

They're third party software and thus against the TOS,

Yes, that's exactly what she said.

Yoshi-P has stated he dislikes them because it breeds eliteism and thus has no plans to add one.

I'd like a link to a quote on this, please.

They have and will ban players that publicly admit to using them.

Which is exactly why people generally just kick low performers instead of telling them what's wrong.

How can they improve if nobody's able to tell them what they're doing wrong?

[Ciri_Wolf]

I think everyone should learn their abilities every time they unlock them. But I just came on to post how funny I think it is that some people in here actually think TC wasn't being really rude. Can't tell if this is most people's first online game or what.

[Rubieus]

Valerian.. is that.. expert? .. unless he is in your raid group. it's not really your place to tell him how to play the game. if he wants to wear minimum ilvl gear then that is his /her choice. seriously. just don't, you'll thank me later. or not. either way, your time was wasted, and mine was for reading/responding to this thread.

[RickXRolled]

And this kind of thinking is EXACTLY why Damage meters are against the TOS. All that matters is the boss dies and you have fun. Don't worry about anyone else.

If the people doing the heavy lifting take on that attitude the boss won't die. Then you can see how much "fun" that is.

[Kallera]

If the people doing the heavy lifting take on that attitude the boss won't die. Then you can see how much "fun" that is.

All I know is that if I was half the hardass this thread seems to want to promote I'd probably be having a less productive time in the df from trying to make big things out of nothing and leaving in a huff. I make fun of the idea of dps measuring races but the truth is that I find fighting the party more than than the boss a turn off.

[Campi]

Valerian.. is that.. expert? .. unless he is in your raid group. it's not really your place to tell him how to play the game. if he wants to wear minimum ilvl gear then that is his /her choice. seriously. just don't, you'll thank me later. or not. either way, your time was wasted, and mine was for reading/responding to this thread.

but this is an mmo, not a solo-player game

if a player do his job wrong, i will tell him how to play
if someone don't do the mechanics, i will tell him what to do


someone can't play and the other 3 have to deal with it, or leave?
this kind of thinking is horribly wrong, sry


when i do team-sports, i will always give my best, i don't want to loose with my team
so why i can't do this in an online-game?


the picture with the tic-tac-toe game says it all

[Lego3400]

but this is an mmo, not a solo-player game

if a player do his job wrong, i will tell him how to play
if someone don't do the mechanics, i will tell him what to do


someone can't play and the other 3 have to deal with it, or leave?
this kind of thinking is horribly wrong, sry


when i do team-sports, i will always give my best, i don't want to loose with my team
so why i can't do this in an online-game?


the picture with the tic-tac-toe game says it all

There is a fine line between playing the game wrong (IE: Not using a skill at all) and not playing up to your standards (Not using a skill as often as you think it should be used despite victory)

[Archaell]

There is a fine line between playing the game wrong (IE: Not using a skill at all) and not playing up to your standards (Not using a skill as often as you think it should be used despite victory)

The main issue is that people want to get the content done. It is better to just carry the bad than trying to reform them. Funny story - I got few times scolded for explaining skills and rotations. Players just want to end the suffering as fast as possible, without thinking about the possibility of meeting the underperforming player again in the future.

As evil as it may sound I would like to see the duty finder matching players of similar skill together, just for a week or two, as the "feedback" on the forums would be really interesting to read.

One of my tanks today told me that I was the best dps in the group. At first it made me happy... then I realised I was playing the healer. Where would this situation be on your "fine line"? We cleared the dungeon, eventually, but when you do your best, risking tank's death to speed up things, while the mobs still die at snail pace, it can be hardly considered fun. (One dps was similarly geared as I was and the other one was about 10 ilvl bellow mine)