Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

[Yoten]

Why would Snap-Snap-Demo be better? You'd be refreshing Demo only a few GCDs later, clipping so much of the DoT that its damage is heavily neutered. Putting it first at least lets it run more of its natural course.

I've been using Demo -> PB -> Snap x3, but that might change now that Chakra has less of a delay.

[Allyrion]

Why would you tho? That forces you to use SP as the last move. The Form Shift opener was never optimal, the last SP was only necessary to keep GL running. Now its just a completely unnecessary move that delays your rotation. You can't even change that SP for a crit BS. The perfect PB opener has always been a set of 5 moves that gets all your Buffs up. Which is SP/DM/RB *3 + DK + TW.

"Starting off with Coeurl form move" is not an argument, since you do the same with PB :P

If you start with a Coeurl form attack, you get one stack of GL for everything thing you do in PB.
Form Shift SP/DM + PB would always be a dps increase over just PB.

Due to the change, the only difference would be you don't have to use DM at the end of PB going back to the 2.0 rotation.
But if we had Form Shift in 2.0, we definitely would've added an extra SP, and thus give an extra GL stack (making the last Coeurl move fully buffed).
So we don't start with Demolish, we start with Snap Punch, possibly.

It's even more optimized because PB is off the GCD, but the 2.0 rotation never cared and used PB at the start.
Weaving PB between GCDs like a oGCD should be will make it better, on top of the faster GL stacking.


It was also proposed before that if we ever got 6 attacks into PB, we could use
SP > SP > SP > DM.
This is now possible with Form Shift and the increased GL duration. So I think SunnyHirose has the right one.

[whiskeybravo]

Why would Snap-Snap-Demo be better? You'd be refreshing Demo only a few GCDs later, clipping so much of the DoT that its damage is heavily neutered. Putting it first at least lets it run more of its natural course.

I haven't started leveling monk to 60 yet, but if it's still valid Snap>Snap>Demo is better because Demo would be fully buffed and it also allows you to finish PB opener with Snap instead of Demo (which is a faster animation when you're trying to sneak ToD in). With the increased GL duration now (and the fact I'm not a lv60 monk) I don't know if any of that is still valid. Just sneaking in and catching up because Monk will probably be the next dps I level to 60

[SunnyHirose]

Why would Snap-Snap-Demo be better? You'd be refreshing Demo only a few GCDs later, clipping so much of the DoT that its damage is heavily neutered. Putting it first at least lets it run more of its natural course.

No, you'd do Snap next. And pre-HW, Demolish was 18s, so you didn't clip anything this way even with mondo skill speed. Not only that, Greased Lightning II damage buff and Blood for Blood (29.8% in combination) had a slight edge over just having it ticking from the start. In addition, timing it this way would give you the first ToD and the second Demolish with BfB, IR, and a potion provided you had a certain level of skill speed. Putting Demolish last also made the timing more forgiving, as pre-HW it would give you nearly a second more tolerance for refreshing GL. This part was important because simply having several damage buffs on ToD was superior to using ToD first, but using Snap Punch as the third PB move could leave you high and dry if slipping the extra GCD in there ended up losing your stacks--you could still make it technically, just you'd be cutting it so close that GL3 visibly fell off before refreshing (and in fact an auto-attack could and did fall in that window... not good!).

If I'm to understand what today's patch does correctly, every GL application is about .5 seconds more tolerant than Demolish was before 3.0.

Now, I'd have to do the heavy theorycrafting someday I'm not headbashing A4, but my hunch is that +43% damage is well worth waiting for, even at the price of a slight clip or whatever. And if it's not, then perhaps snap [pb] snap demo snap does the trick.

[Allyrion]

The Meditation recast reduction is really noticeable. I like it.
Also Forbidden Chakra doesn't eat into the GCD anymore with its animation delay.

[scx]

...

How does that logic even make sense to you? PB is not a damage skill, there is no difference in the opener other than you using a Snap Punch at the end.
What's more dps: me getting my skills out 1 gcd earlier than you & getting a fully buffed fracture or you getting a fully buffed snap punch?

[Yoten]

(part 1 - stupid character limit)

I'm talking about clipping it with the Boot-True-Demo sequence that follows PB wearing off. You will absolutely clip your first Demo there regardless of skill speed.

But anyway, you and whiskybravo are talking about "sneaking in" ToD and lining it up with your buffs, but you could already do that before. You also talk about the possibility of losing stacks, but with practice that isn't an issue either. There wasn't a large margin for error, sure, but it wasn't difficult. So neither of those seem like valid points unless you just want to make things easier on yourselves rather than maximize your damage.

This is what I've been using for my opener and its followup (parenthesis = OGCDs weaved in):

Demo (PB) -> Snap -> Snap -> Snap -> DK (IR) -> Twin (B4B) -> Boot (potion) -> True (Elixir) -> Demo (Steel Peak) -> Fracture (Howling) -> ToD (Chakra) -> DK -> Twin -> Snap

[Yoten]

(part 2)

You can shuffle your OGCDs around as desired, omitting the potion for non-progression fights or shifting things up so that you have IR/B4B/pot ready before Bootshine, but that's the gist of it.

This gets you fully-buffed DoTs and Chakra for your initial burst and has no risk of dropping your buffs/stacks as long as you don't waste any time, and today's GL duration extension makes your stacks safe even if you do.

[Allyrion]

How does that logic even make sense to you? PB is not a damage skill, there is no difference in the opener other than you using a Snap Punch at the end.
What's more dps: me getting my skills out 1 gcd earlier than you & getting a fully buffed fracture or you getting a fully buffed snap punch?

How are you getting skills out earlier?
If anything starting with Snap Punch in Coeurl and weaving PB as an off GCD is starting earlier.
Your opener has a delay because you use PB (a no damage off gcd) at the start while Snap (PB) Snap is starting that building earlier.

You should get the fully buffed fracture regardless.
Are you talking about Form Shifting at the start of combat? Because that shouldn't happen.
You should be in Coeurl already at the start of combat, so your first GCD is Snap Punch. No delay.

I never said to use Snap Punch at the end anyway.
If anything, it'd be
SP (PB) > SP > SP > DM > DK > TS
You can still get everything buffed, you don't have to start with an off gcd and your ramp up is only faster leading to a fully buffed DM in addition to everything else you had.

[Yoten]

I've only been considering two changes:

1) Demo-Snap-Snap vs. Snap-Snap-Demo: As I said above, it sounds more like doing Demo last clips it badly enough to negate the GL bonus it would have, but that would require more precise testing. No-GL Demo is always better than GL2 Demo if the latter loses two tics, but if only ONE tic is clipped then GL2 Demo gets better after four tics. I'd have to see how many get clipped on average, but the global DoT-tic server timer not being in sync with our ability usage complicates that.

2) Now that Chakra has less of a delay, it may be possible to use Demo(PB)-Snap-Snap-DK-Twin-Snap. Before, this was less ideal because DK/Twin being placed one GCD earlier would cause them to just barely fall off due to Chakra's delay and you'd have to drop some other GCD skill to prevent that. If the delay reduction is enough to make this safe, the benefit is that we'd get our buffs up one GCD sooner.