"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Erim-Nelhah]

This comes down to both my mood and whether or not you were nice about asking for the kick.

If:

1. You asked nicely,
2. I'm not chain-running dungeons for exp, and
3. I have a votekick available

Ok, fine, I'll kick you. If you're nice about it but one of the other points above doesn't apply, I'll say so, and if you don't get the kick you asked for the following options apply to you, too.

If you didn't ask nicely, I'll say "no don't kick" real fast, and then I'll list your options:

1. You can leave and take the penalty,
2. You can stay and help us clear, or
3. You can go AFK, and I'll report you for harassment (not kick you, report you).

If you then apologize and mention that you have something else you need to go do (eg you were being a jerk in chat, commenting on low/slow dps, bad tanking, etc), I might relent, but more likely I'll say "You should have thought of that before you entered a dungeon with a time limit of 90 minutes, and again before you started being a jerk to the rest of us."

If you take option 3, you might find yourself wishing you'd taken one of the other options instead, because it sounds to me like the GM team really frowns on that.

--Erim Nelhah

[Purrfectstorm]

I feel sooner or later there is going to be a topic about people complaining about those who chose to take the 30 minute penalty rather than staying with the group.

That's how we got a 30 min penalty (up from 15).

Baddies think if the penalty is high enough it will force others to help them. They may be right, up to a point. If dps is a little slow and it looks like a group will take 10 extra min to clear, it's 10 min vs. a 15/30/whatever min penalty. But if it's possibly never because the group is too inept to clear vs. 15 or 30 min, then the smart player will take the penalty every time.

And if the penalty becomes too restrictive, like 1 hr. or more, you'll just see people moving to a different game. Incentives will only go so far for encouraging decent players to group with bad players and incentives will never be able to create patience out of thin air. At most you'll see groups of strangely quiet players (as they secretly curse you for wasting their time and making their experience so miserable) and you won't get any commendations at the end.

If a person is okay with this (someone else quietly gritting their teeth and carrying them) then I think you need to ask: who is more of a d-bag, the player who leaves because they're not having any fun or the player who expects those who aren't having any fun to stick around just for their sake?

[RiceisNice]

...

It's not a question about duration, it's the fact that getting removed by vote kick does not give you DF penalty. People that want to leave the instance for whatever reason will ask to be vote kicked so they don't incur the 30 minute penalty.

If you're in such a bad party that legitmately can't progress then you have the choice of leaving or vote abandoning. If the other three are purposely halting the dungeon progress and won't let you go (holding hostage), that's player harassment and it can be reported. Honestly in this situation, if there were penalties for being kicked, people would just switch to "I got partied with baddies and my time was wasted."

[Darra]

It's 6:30pm. I enter Brayflox HM (can be completed in 15 minutes, 20-22 minutes max). I have a raid at 7pm. My Brayflox HM group is so bad we're at boss 2 and it's 6:57pm. 1 option would hold up a raid group for 27 minutes, the other (if you stick it out) it could be 10-20 minutes, depending on the duty). Remind me again how under no circumstances is it acceptable to ask to be kicked? As for "reporting" people for "holding a group hostage", how about you holding someone's raid group hostage? Or how about, you stop trying to punish people because they don't share your ideology, we all know you'd be the first crybabies complaining if you got punished for not sharing someone else's ideology.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Honestly, if things are that bad I'll not only grant their vote kick but I'll ride out on their coat tails! I'm not interested in wasting my time on a hopeless instance.

[RiceisNice]

...

Why are you even queuing for a DF in the first place that close to your raid time? Why are you expecting a 15 minute clear when you're queuing with random people? I'm sorry but this seems like an incredibly high expectation to hold up. If someone did that in my raid static and they know we have a scheduled raid, I'd give them a word about it because they are the ones holding up the raid, not the three other people they got partied with.

Why are you passing on the blame to the three in your party, when you queued by yourself?

Oh, and better not have been trying to raid for alexander savage either. Because if you were, your example makes even less sense or justification.

[CyrilLucifer]

It's 6:30pm. I enter Brayflox HM (can be completed in 15 minutes, 20-22 minutes max). I have a raid at 7pm. My Brayflox HM group is so bad we're at boss 2 and it's 6:57pm. 1 option would hold up a raid group for 27 minutes, the other (if you stick it out) it could be 10-20 minutes, depending on the duty). Remind me again how under no circumstances is it acceptable to ask to be kicked? As for "reporting" people for "holding a group hostage", how about you holding someone's raid group hostage? Or how about, you stop trying to punish people because they don't share your ideology, we all know you'd be the first crybabies complaining if you got punished for not sharing someone else's ideology.

I'd honestly say this is entirely your fault for entering the dungeon so close to raid time even despite seemingly "having enough time." My groups tend to have restrictions about arriving early and avoiding certain events precisely because things like this do happen.

So, you set yourself up for failure there, knowing how close you're cutting it. This is your fault, not the group's.

[Assirra]

It's 6:30pm. I enter Brayflox HM (can be completed in 15 minutes, 20-22 minutes max). I have a raid at 7pm. My Brayflox HM group is so bad we're at boss 2 and it's 6:57pm. 1 option would hold up a raid group for 27 minutes, the other (if you stick it out) it could be 10-20 minutes, depending on the duty). Remind me again how under no circumstances is it acceptable to ask to be kicked? As for "reporting" people for "holding a group hostage", how about you holding someone's raid group hostage? Or how about, you stop trying to punish people because they don't share your ideology, we all know you'd be the first crybabies complaining if you got punished for not sharing someone else's ideology.

It's called having the responsibility to your raid team and not start stuff you might not finish in time.
It seems those tomes/exp were more important then them.

[Purrfectstorm]

It's not a question about duration, it's the fact that getting removed by vote kick does not give you DF penalty. People that want to leave the instance for whatever reason will ask to be vote kicked so they don't incur the 30 minute penalty.

If you're in such a bad party that legitmately can't progress then you have the choice of leaving or vote abandoning. If the other three are purposely halting the dungeon progress and won't let you go (holding hostage), that's player harassment and it can be reported. Honestly in this situation, if there were penalties for being kicked, people would just switch to "I got partied with baddies and my time was wasted."

You have no idea what I was talking about.

[RiceisNice]

You have no idea what I was talking about.

Care to clarify then? No one can force you to stay in the party, unless the 30 minute penalty is [B]that [/B ]detrimental to you somehow. How exactly are they wasting your time otherwise?