Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

Stop posting in a thread about a class you clearly have no clue about.

I find it interesting the most verbal opponents yet most ignorant of the class in these threads tends to mostly come from people who claim to know the class despite not even having a capped bard themselves. The amount of fear mongering about possible changes by those of other classes stinks of wanting to screw over this class or machinist to make themselves look better in group composition or plain old ignorance. Perhaps stick to threads you might have a better understanding of such as your own class ones instead of spouting nonsense in different class ones you have no experience playing in endgame content at capped level and fully unlocked/used skills.

Just because you have an opinion about something which potentially have little to no practical experience with and you on the outside looking in does not make that opinion worth much, the people SE need to listen to about the problems with bards and machinists are the players who actually do play them, have the practical experience of using them in high level content using all the skills themselves on the class itself and not other players of other classes just throwing in ignorant or fear mongering comments. I also dislike when a low level archer or bard thinks they know what it is like to play at capped level using skills they have yet to unlock, in the sense of them arguing with those bards who have spent a lot of time experiencing all the skills it has at the capped level in high end content. Practical experience with the class trumps theory crafting and generic opinions of other class players.

It is becoming very annoying when people who do not play a class come into threads talking about them as though they know the class when clearly they don't and I see this all the time whenever a class thread comes up other classes pop in and voice their opinion on it despite having no practical experience playing it themselves. The class discussion is better suited to those whom are both informed and experienced in using it. Why don't you start a bard, cap it and experience what it is like to play in endgame content using all the skills on that class...then come back and have a more insightful opinion on it. Not all bards who have such practical experience agree with each other but at least in those cases they are coming from a position of experience and first hand knowledge instead of random guess work, inexperienced assumption and mere outside theory crafting.

[Musashidon]

Stop posting in a thread about a class you clearly have no clue about.

I find it interesting the most verbal opponents yet most ignorant of the class in these threads tends to mostly come from people who claim to know the class despite not even having a capped bard themselves. The amount of fear mongering about possible changes by those of other classes stinks of wanting to screw over this class or machinist to make themselves look better in group composition or plain old ignorance.

so just like the others instead of actually having a discussion the only thing you have to refute my arguments is nu huh you aren't lvl 60 like me. seriously?

there is no fear mongering. bards lack dps due to the giant role they play in raids. one that no other job can replace.

Do you see how stupid this sounds? It's how you sound.

oh to exaggerations now huh? come on guys graspin straws now?

bards job is not to keep up with everyone else in dps it's why it's lower.

[Lillia]

Stop posting in a thread about a class you clearly have no clue about.

I find it interesting the most verbal opponents yet most ignorant of the class in these threads tends to mostly come from people who claim to know the class despite not even having a capped bard themselves. The amount of fear mongering about possible changes by those of other classes stinks of wanting to screw over this class or machinist to make themselves look better in group composition or plain old ignorance.

We all have the ability to have multiple characters, just because some posters don't have bard max'd on their current characters shown on forums doesn't imply that they don't have other characters who is a bard that is leveled. Someone in a different thread proved this same situation to someone else who literally didn't even notice they were replying to the same person after the character shown was switched over.

and I'm not using this as a defense for any certain poster, I've just seen this done through the span of this topic and it's really just a baseless insult to those who probably just aren't showing off their bard characters.

I show my character as bard because this is my main but I do have other characters myself on different servers which are different jobs in order to be with friends.

[Snugglebutt]

We all have the ability to have multiple characters, just because some posters don't have bard max'd on their current characters shown on forums doesn't imply that they don't have other characters who is a bard that is leveled. Someone in a different thread proved this same situation to someone else who literally didn't even notice they were replying to the same person after the character shown was switched over.

Which would be fair enough if I had used only his current character class shown as the sole reason why I said what I did but I also took into account what he was saying as evidence alongside his current character shown as to his inexperience with playing the bard class within high level content and showing an apparent lack of full practical knowledge of the skills, trial and tribulations of the class at capped level in such content.

[Lillia]

Which would be fair enough if I had used only his current character class shown as the sole reason why I said what I did but I also took into account what he was saying as evidence alongside his current character shown as to his inexperience with playing the bard class within high level content and showing an apparent lack of full practical knowledge of the skills, trial and tribulations of the class at capped level in such content.

Honestly I've been kind of ignoring him but.... from the last post.... urm... what exactly is wrong with it? We are lower and as a whole we shouldn't be doing more damage when not in WM with all the stuff we can do... I do want WM to be buffed but.... even if he is trolling I just don't see it.

In raids tanks will always run out of TP and if a ninja goads a tank then they can't goad themselves meaning that we will always need to regen a TP though bard's dps may be a problem, as someone pointed out to me in the other bard thread... others are losing as much dps with down time if there is TP issues period.

Our weapon damage is screwed compared to others not that it's much of a change from before though I'd like it looked at if WM isn't fixed dmg wise... I mean... I just don't see it?

Meanwhile Intellion and Lewt have literally.... no argument no offense. Intel is arguing how our biggest advantage is movement in raids and why we are taken vs our usefulness in song while Lewt literally just contradicted themselves in their last post by saying Musa said bards should do as much DPS as other DPS... while they were saying the whole movement and DPS argument the whole time when so far I don't see that argument being done by him this whole time, more like hes arguing song vs mobility with Intel and why others take us...