RIP Ninja

[silentwindfr]

mmh will the spell that allows us to use an ability 3 times work on mudras ? or kassatsu ?

i dunno but I feel like ninjas are already in a good place atm, no need to give them changes in the like of the old jobs. Nin is already quite new and refreshing as it is atm.

the ninja still need tons of work, mainly around the ninjutsu, our symbolic skill, the refresh of huton via weaponskill is nice, but the main trouble is the lack of utility of the ninjutsu. half of them are still situational... and i feel it's possible to make this soo much better. like make it work into combo... so far weapon skill and ninjutsu are two different system that have little to no link together. exept suiton with ta/sa the rest is like an ogcd skill... it's sad to think that a jobs that often rely more on this is barely using it.

i will have loved to see a rework on the ninjutsu for allow to use it into a combo and work on it for make it more fluid and most interesting.

[ChaozK]

so far weapon skill and ninjutsu are two different system that have little to no link together. exept suiton with ta/sa the rest is like an ogcd skill.

So what is missing is kinda like a weapon skill that would interact with ninjutsu by, i dont know, maybe increasing the time of huton. They really should have made something like that, i agree.

[Taranok]

So what is missing is kinda like a weapon skill that would interact with ninjutsu by, i dont know, maybe increasing the time of huton. They really should have made something like that, i agree.

The problem I noted by just thinking of what they're asking for is that such a system substantially complicates the Ninja rotation, as now you have to factor in trying to land specific points in the combo before activating specific mudra that specifically boost that attack. The Mudra system seems like it was never designed or intended to be used to boost the next weapon skill used in quite this fashion, and the overwhelming amount of new abilities the devs would need to account for in such an addition would border on the insane when you finally got down to it. Even if it was just 3 new abilities that augmented your next weapon strike because you didn't fire it, what would be the fundamental difference between that and activating a specific GCD that would do the same thing?

In a system that by design mutually competes with literally everything else in the same system, it's a lot of extra bloat that doesn't really add much flavor when you truly delve into what is being asked for, and complicates a class in a way that it doesn't need to be complicated. Hell, as much as I hate positionals, it'd make more sense to make specific mudras fire when doing a specific positional than to tack on more features to the mudra system that it really doesn't need. For instance, side-stabbing someone with aeolian edge? Congratulations, have a fireball to your face! Backstab with Shadow Fang? Icy feet or what have you! It would fundamentally add the same thing without adding more competition to a system that is innately designed to compete with itself without ultimately devolving the system into "We don't actually know what half these abilities do because only these ones are ever worth using." Much like Hyoton, an ability so little used that you probably had to look it up simply to know what it was. Its only crime is that literally everything else is vastly superior to it in every way, shape, and form, unless you specifically want the ability to root things. Hell, even the bunny rabbit is vastly superior, because it does a dance and a jig to calm you down after messing up another ability for any given reason.

[Taranok]

Honestly, I don't particularly like the vast swings of meta involved in adding game-changing abilities at certain levels. To use BRD as an example, BRD after Wanderer's Minuet will be a fundamentally different job than before WM. If WM is a level 60 skill, that means every single non-60 instance will have BRDs playing fundamentally differently than they do at 60. That's not fun (imo), that's frustrating. I'm more happy to get nice toys to play with every few levels that give me more tools to use.

This is the big reason I also don't like the addition of positionals to the Ninja class, though it's not nearly as profound as turning the most mobile class in the game into a class that treats the least mobile as company, even if it might not be as immobile as a Black Mage ultimately ends up being.

Classes that get their uniqueness expanded upon with new content? Fantastic. Classes that get something fundamental to the class substantially altered if not outright removed? Not fun at all. Though Bards definitely got hit harder than pretty much any other class.

when i say the shorthand of the stick i'm talking about new mechanic that will expand our gameplay. we can say that the buff and the refresh huton can be counted like this, however, it still far from what it was possible to add. they are quite simple mechanic already used... the huton refresh without new ninjutsu still lead to 3 different type of ninjutsu used, indeed it's an increase of dps, but it's quite simple... not game changing.

i admit, it's still possible they surprise us by adding a mudra, not nessecerly adding ninjutsu with 4 mudra, but offering more skill by adding a 4th mudra that can replace the three other in the process to add skill. they can even use the already existing mudra for add more skill. but, why not use this in the presentation, any ninja will have be extremely hyped by this. more than by what they have shown us. but i doubt it.... since they have said that they will not change a lot the fighting capacity of the ninja.

ps: the refresh of huton is nice, don't get me wrong, what i'm pointing out, is the fact to not add anything for be used with, leaving us with huton, raiton and suiton as usefull ninjutsu. katon, doton and hyoton are quite situational and not often very good sadly. and more important we will not see an expansion before 1-2 years... it's quite long for wait to see our ninjutsu extended. no?

Must every change be so fundamentally game-changing? The devs could have just as easily delayed the Ninja until Heavensward and people would still think it was awesome, despite largely being rather reserved as far as class abilities are concerned. About the flashiest thing the Ninja does is summon a single bolt of lightning. A far cry from the star-swirled sky that Arcanists get at level 50, nevermind the Nova that Black Mages summon. Looking at the preview, I was pretty happy watching the Ninja jump around the mob to hit it in multiple places. It's a sort of reserved flashiness that fit in just fine for the class.

It's no Akh Morn like the summoners get, but the Ninja was never as flashy as even the Monk or Dragoon is, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

Furthermore, you're short-selling the utility of threat-manipulating abilities. For all we know, the devs are going to bring threat much, much closer together compared to now, or maybe the devs will add major threat wipe or threat jumbling mechanics that could make Ninjas a very valuable group member to deal with situations where the Healer was given phantom aggro. Sure, the tank could simply cast provoke, but sometimes having a little bit more is quite useful.

The class by design simply by proxy of Goad, nevermind Trick Attack, was always going to be a support DPS class, and having more support is fine by me. Nothing can be more useless than All Fours is, and it's not like Ninja is unique in receiving abilities of dubious worth. I still struggle to find use for Foresight on my Warrior, its effect is simply that intangible even on high-end raid content. Nevermind the threat dump on the Dragoon, which I never found a use for but have seen others use it for reasons other than a threat dump.

But do remember, a 4th mudra by itself, without altering anything about how mudras work right now, is adding seven new abilities to the class. The devs would be better served making a special mudra that, when combined with a very specific combo of mudra of N lengths long, would give the ninja some hyper-powerful buff or damage ability or something. That's something the devs could do that would be interesting and really feel awesome. But I digress.

At the end of the day, the devs did expand a lot on the Ninja with stuff we know, even though it's not simply a major mechanics overhaul like so many classes needed. The only problem I have is that the Ninja is gaining positionals. That's it. Everything else sounds good.

But I digress.