The Ninja Superthread

[silentwindfr]

i feel the same dude... i don't stop to say it... it's the worst change they can do to the jobs, a lot of person did choose ninja because of the lack of positional.... bring it into the ninja more of 6 month after is kinda rude and insulting for this player.

it's like SE did decide to say: you like this jobs because of this, sorry but.... other don't like that you are different, then we add positional to you.
because that the truth behind the add of positional, because the other community did complain and cry of jealousy over the difference of the ninja.

ps: if they did add the positional because they had no other idea, it worst.... really... i still prefer that they did had the positional because of the complain of the other than decide to broke our jobs because of them inability to bring new mechanic to our jobs. really...

[Allyrion]

i feel the same dude... i don't stop to say it... it's the worst change they can do to the jobs, a lot of person did choose ninja because of the lack of positional.... bring it into the ninja more of 6 month after is kinda rude and insulting for this player.

it's like SE did decide to say: you like this jobs because of this, sorry but.... other don't like that you are different, then we add positional to you.
because that the truth behind the add of positional, because the other community did complain and cry of jealousy over the difference of the ninja.

ps: if they did add the positional because they had no other idea, it worst.... really... i still prefer that they did had the positional because of the complain of the other than decide to broke our jobs because of them inability to bring new mechanic to our jobs. really...

I'll just quote myself from another thread:

I think you put too much emphasis on thinking SE handcrafted NIN difficulty to perfection without positionals in mind.
I think it's much more flexible than that, and they clearly think that adding positionals to manage would be within the range of mechanics they want for NIN.
Whatever they thought originally, they changed their mind and think we can handle the NIN rotation with positionals.



You say that, yet I'm a NIN main and I obviously think adding positionals are okay.
I've argued this with you before, but don't get me wrong.
I think they can and should add a lot of interesting and challenging mechanics to Ninja going forward.
But I've also made it clear that I believe NIN isn't ready for that much change yet due to it only being live for one tier of raiding.
I want them to think carefully on what direction on how to develop NIN.
Positionals aren't a development or direction. They're more basic than that.


I think Positionals are to Melee as Casting is to Ranged.
Ranged get more dps standing still and lose dps moving, but some are certainly more mobile than other having instant casts or through stance switching (for the new BRD).
Every ranged still has to work around the idea that movement needs to be managed.
This is why BRD had to get WM.

For Melee, some have less positional bonuses than others (equivalent to having instant casts) but they should all still have to consider their movement.
I honestly don't think freedom of movement is a luxury any dps should afford.
I don't think NIN should be MNKs with knives, but having positionals doesn't do that.
Just like charging attacks is a basic function of ranged, positional attacks should be a basic function of melee.

I want to play a NIN and I want them to add interesting Ninja only mechanics.
I also want to have to consider my movement to some extent or lose some damage while doing all of that.
I think NIN will get some more interesting mechanics after Heavensward launch since it came out so late.

Sure, it's not great to see everyone else get more interesting changes.
But we shouldn't pretend things are equal here. NIN came out in 2.4 with the Final Coil.
Our launch was late and there's no reason to expect we'd get the same treatment.

TLDR
Positionals are simply implementing a more basic design, it's not a new class development or direction.
I bolded the last part because it is more relevant.
I think we'll get more interesting mechanics going forward but they shouldn't rush it.
It took 2 years and 3 tiers for the additions all the other classes got.
NIN has been out for less than a year and only ONE tier.

NIN shouldn't expect the same amount of change when it hasn't gotten its feet wet compared to the rest.
Positionals aren't a lazy change for the sake of it.
It's simply bringing NIN in line to the base design of Melee in this game. It's a fix, not a development.
We'll get real class development and direction later on, as we should.

My TLDR.....might be too long itself...

[CyrusStarChaser]

It's simply bringing NIN in line to the base design of Melee in this game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't NIN ALREADY have as many positionals as DRG? So in that sense, they already are in line with other DPS. I don't mind DRG and NIN positionals (as they are now). For me, personally, the joy of playing NIN comes from freedom of movement. If they add one or two oGCD things that I need to be flank or back for then fine, that's a minor annoyance. But if we are gong to have all of our basic weapon skills be positinals like MNK then I'm tossing my daggers and never looking back.

[Allyrion]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't NIN ALREADY have as many positionals as DRG? So in that sense, they already are in line with other DPS. I don't mind DRG and NIN positionals (as they are now).

I'll correct you, it doesn't have the same amount.
It has 2 positionals, yes, but they share a cooldown together and they even have a cooldown at all.
So you use one positional every minute. Even DRG, which is not positional heavy uses at least 5 per minute.

I really don't think it'll be on the same level as monk. Possibly the same as or a little more than DRG.

[CyrusStarChaser]

snip.

I was going simply with "number of skills with positionals", as opposed to "how often they are used", but I see your point.

And as I said, I would be annoyed, but overall alright in the end, if NIN has DRG-level posisitnal requirements. But I'm not happy about this change, and I still feel like it's un-needed, due to the fact that I always felt freedom of movement was a class feature. But I realize that just because I find dance around the mob like a crazy person to be the most enjoyable way to fight, doesn't necessarily means anyway, let alone the devs, agrees.

As my girlfriend likes to say "They're nerfing my fun!"