[Reminder] Classes Are Not Jobs [dev1033]

[Cairdeas]

Look I am not some elitist ass hat that will shoot you down for coming up with some strange class combination, but I still think the current system does not provide as much flexibility as people make out it does. I can not remove Spirit dart from my action bar and replace it with another basic attack that would allow me to actually smack something with the staff for a basic attack, as spirit dart is glued to number 1 on the bar (thats another argument though ><) so I can not change the basic attack to make my staff smashing MNK.

They really need to move away from this Weapon=Class system and add defined proper classes that are not bound to a weapon, you could still chop and change skill's and abilities if you want to make your crazy class but now you would also be able to equip different weapons too. They could make weapons the same as gear for optimal rank and classes.

Alexis, While a Conjurer Monk would be difficult to pull off its possible the problem is your mixing a pure Magic Class with a Physical Job.

Though in my system as I tried to describe it, when a Job is attached to a class, certain abilities for that class itself change based on the job. In the Case of Monk being laid over any class you could have it so that Skill 1 (Spirit Dart in the case of Conj) Augments and becomes a new ability as long as the Job Is in place. For Monk this ability could be anything from Chi-Blast (Representing the oldschool Monk Ability and using Vit/Mnd for its damage instead of just magical stats) to Hefty Swing (A basic physical attack that deals damage based on Vit not Strength)

As well The Skill 2 (In the case on Conjurer Tranquility) Turns into the Job's specialised "Ohshitbutton" skill. For the case of Monk this could be "Hundred Fist" which fills your Stamina Bar up to 100% and causes your character to automatically attack with a basic physical attack repeatedly at a fast rate with a x1.5% bonus to damage for the duration that it takes stamina to return to 0.

[Malakhim]

I'll say it over and over again, option 2 is the best one that fits the armory system, and this is a great take on what we could possibly receive.

[AlexiaKidd]

Alexis, While a Conjurer Monk would be difficult to pull off its possible the problem is your mixing a pure Magic Class with a Physical Job.

Though in my system as I tried to describe it, when a Job is attached to a class, certain abilities for that class itself change based on the job. In the Case of Monk being laid over any class you could have it so that Skill 1 (Spirit Dart in the case of Conj) Augments and becomes a new ability as long as the Job Is in place. For Monk this ability could be anything from Chi-Blast (Representing the oldschool Monk Ability and using Vit/Mnd for its damage instead of just magical stats) to Hefty Swing (A basic physical attack that deals damage based on Vit not Strength)

As well The Skill 2 (In the case on Conjurer Tranquility) Turns into the Job's specialised "Ohshitbutton" skill. For the case of Monk this could be "Hundred Fist" which fills your Stamina Bar up to 100% and causes your character to automatically attack with a basic physical attack repeatedly at a fast rate with a x1.5% bonus to damage for the duration that it takes stamina to return to 0.

Or they could stop all this weapon=class bull crap make the CON, THM, PUG and so on jobs and leave weapons for weapon skill's and that solves everything. They can still do there talent tree's or whatever I don't care about that, I just don't want to be tied to the same weapon forever on my MRD ><

[gifthorse]

Or they could stop all this weapon=class bull crap make the CON, THM, PUG and so on jobs and leave weapons for weapon skill's and that solves everything. They can still do there talent tree's or whatever I don't care about that, I just don't want to be tied to the same weapon forever on my MRD ><

I totally see what you're trying to say with your CON=MNK thing. And i think a staff-wielding combatant should be possible. But you have to understand that the staves and cudgels in FFXIV are magical vessels. When they introduce a new weapon to specialise in, such as a fighting staff or mace, then you will be able to make a DD staff-wielder.

At the moment, the armory system is limited by the constraints of content. We don't have every weapon under the sun in the system at the moment, so of course you are limited in your choices.

For the meantime, a lance is a good alternative.


Anyways, I think you do have an interesting point and I've thought of some ways around this. Earlier in this thread, if you bothered to read it, we talked about the introduction of templates (as one poster called it).

The idea behind the template is that you can specialise within the armory system to be the job you want. In this way, you could attach a template name to your character and inherit whatever buffs and debuffs come with that template. For example, if you wanted to me a Dark Knight, you could attach the DRK template to your character and inherit more Attack, Less accuracy, and a boost to relevant THM and CONJ spells.

Under this template (job) system, you aren't limited to a weapon (class). You can freely switch between all the weapons (classes) you've ranked up. So you can use your Maruder's axe or your Pugilist's fists and still maintain your role as a Dark Knight.

[Cairdeas]

I totally see what you're trying to say with your CON=MNK thing. And i think a staff-wielding combatant should be possible. But you have to understand that the staves and cudgels in FFXIV are magical vessels. When they introduce a new weapon to specialise in, such as a fighting staff or mace, then you will be able to make a DD staff-wielder.

At the moment, the armory system is limited by the constraints of content. We don't have every weapon under the sun in the system at the moment, so of course you are limited in your choices.

For the meantime, a lance is a good alternative.


Anyways, I think you do have an interesting point and I've thought of some ways around this. Earlier in this thread, if you bothered to read it, we talked about the introduction of templates (as one poster called it).

The idea behind the template is that you can specialise within the armory system to be the job you want. In this way, you could attach a template name to your character and inherit whatever buffs and debuffs come with that template. For example, if you wanted to me a Dark Knight, you could attach the DRK template to your character and inherit more Attack, Less accuracy, and a boost to relevant THM and CONJ spells.

Under this template (job) system, you aren't limited to a weapon (class). You can freely switch between all the weapons (classes) you've ranked up. So you can use your Maruder's axe or your Pugilist's fists and still maintain your role as a Dark Knight.

Probably just a better way to say what I've been saying, Just include the Individual Skill Augments

Things like

If Job = Monk
Simian Thrash -> Asuran Fist : Earns 1 extra physical hit and increase the damage per hit by a percentage.

If Job = Ninja
Fire = Katon : Deals slightly lower elemental damage but causes the next spell in the elemental wheel to deal double damage.

If Job = White Mage
Secondary Skill = Benediction

etc.

[AlexiaKidd]

Or they could just stop all this weapon=class bull crap!!!!

Look take THM if I want to equip a sword to it I should be able to, I shouldn't do as much damage with it as a main sword user but I should be able to do it anyway. At the minute if I equip a sword I turn into a GLA, yes I can put all my abilities from THM onto my GLA but then that hampers my effectiveness as a THM. It should be the other way around my THM and mage skills should be fine and my sword skill not as effective as a stave ><

The whole system is broken and no amount of little tweaks is going to fix that it needs a complete overhaul not a plaster putting over the top of it. If you want to see why I will quote myself from another thread:

Sorry I used Utsusami as an example, the point I was trying to make is in FFXI there were restrictions that stopped you from taking the best abilities from each class and creating a super class. If FFXI was like this then everyone would level NIN for shadow's, everyone would level SAM for Hasso, Meditate, Third Eye, Siegan, everyone would level WAR for Berserk, War Cry, Aggressor, everyone would level RDM for Convert, Refresh and Haste and so on, it would be completely out of control.

That is what I fear is happening with the current system, already you have THM's that can solo the NM's which are designed for 15 people, how is that balance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDk94b3oZbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazOD98mqr4

I have levelled MRD to 50 and started levelling all the other classes I have everything above R24 but I am mainly focusing on ARC now and even I can see how over powered I am becoming adding abilities like, ferocity, faint,invigorate, maim, still precision, skull sunder and so on, on top of my Archers already OP abilties. I can kill things way above what I should be doing and I have that many attack buff's and weapon skill's that most of the time I can't even use them all because everything is dead so quick.

The system need's to be seriously looked at because it is broken as hell at the minute.

[Cairdeas]

You still thinking of it like "Gladiator" is anything other then "Sword User" its not. In Japanese it literally means "Sword User"

You can take your Thaumaturge, load it out with all the skills you want, then equip a sword, Yes you turn into a Gladiator (Sword User) but you can still use all the skills from thaum (minues a few weapon specifics)

[gifthorse]

Or they could just stop all this weapon=class bull crap!!!!

Look take THM if I want to equip a sword to it I should be able to, I shouldn't do as much damage with it as a main sword user but I should be able to do it anyway. At the minute if I equip a sword I turn into a GLA, yes I can put all my abilities from THM onto my GLA but then that hampers my effectiveness as a THM. It should be the other way around my THM and mage skills should be fine and my sword skill not as effective as a stave ><

The whole system is broken and no amount of little tweaks is going to fix that it needs a complete overhaul not a plaster putting over the top of it. If you want to see why I will quote myself from another thread:

The staves and other items have magical properties which allow mages to channel their energy. The swords are just swords. So if you equip "just a sword" then it stands to reason that your THM skills would be hampered. I outlined above how they could add specialisations within the classes to accommodate the things you want.

Ignore it if you want, but Yoshi P already said there are two options they are going for: Advanced classes, which essentially would keep all the current classes. The other route is to make classic jobs specialisations, which would kind of replace the current classes while maintaining the armory system.

Perhaps they will add magical swords which can heighten your magical potency. Or perhaps a specialisation within the classes can help facilitate a sword-wielding mage to make it viable.

The thing i dislike about your proposal is that you are asking for THM to be a specialisation in and unto itself, which is worse, in my opinion than wanted specialisations within the THM class. I don't like the current classes because they lack direction, hence why I am encouraging specialisation within the classes.

You are suggesting they make THM a role/job instead of a class.

[Cairdeas]

Yeah the thing that causes magic to suck on non mage weapons its the weapons Magic Potency stat.

Most likely Fencer if it becomes a proper class will have fencing swords that have high potency (non-magic weapons normally cap around 5 magic potency while magic weapons have 50+)

[napalmninja]

The whole problem with the armory system is that it was designed with the intention of everyone mixing and matching skills in order to make what they want. Because it was designed this way every class or whatever you want to call it has no individuality. Like others have said earlier with something like this you no longer have red, black or white mages they all essentially become a gray mage.

There's a whole different discussing what I like here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...sic-FF-Classes.