[Reminder] Classes Are Not Jobs [dev1033]

[Rhomagus]

The following statement by Rustyhagun is false:

They are scrapping the system we are playing with now, you don't believe me? Then we will see.

Dargoth_Draconia wrote in another, (but related) thread:

Two Q/A both from different fansite interviews.
Q. You have also mentioned the possible introduction of traditional names. How do you see these new names fitting into the existing class system? Do you plan on using the new names as a guide to develop class uniqueness?

A. Yoshida-san is between two possible plans at this time. The first idea is that the traditional names would be introduced as “higher” or “advanced” classes. The traditional classes would thus be something of a goal for players. The second idea is that the traditional names would be more of a subset or specialization within the existing classes.

Whatever change is put into effect needs to be right. He recognizes that he will not be able to change the system again after this, so whatever is put into place needs to work, and be able to be balanced, for years to come. Because of this his team is giving this issue a lot of thought prior to implementation.

Q:If you take out the physical level system, do you plan on adding ability trees, sphere grid, licence grid, etc type systems (Final Fantasy spin on classic MMO character building) that will still allow us to build out our classes as we please? If so, what are your thoughts, if not, what are your thoughts on the whole physical leveling system in FFXIV?

A:We're not looking to copy what other MMOs are doing. But we are looking to move in that direction, and right now the battle team has two options that they're thinking of. And basically, they're battling against which one they're going to choose. We're going to be moving in a similar direction, but it's not something that copies another game.

And with that, we want to get back to the roots of the original Final Fantasyesque jobs like Dragoons and White Mages. So we're trying to figure out how to get that to that new type of system.

It seems that the development team is leaning towards a system that incorporates concepts from other games as well as Cairdeas' proposals. This is reassuring in my point of view, as it is a very healthy implementation of "don't fix it if it ain't broken." Many players from many viewpoints tend to cite this philosophy in their criticisms of the game.

[Rosie]

I agree with Speeral. I really don't want to see ability trees. I hate to say it but if I wanted to put points in trees, I'd play WoW. With any ability tree everyone will just pick the most powerful choices.

I think the only flaw with the current class system is that the abilities are linked to weapons.

I think if the classes wern't linked to weapons it would allow them to be more diverse. I dont think we should lose the ability to change class any time we like, but I do think it should be done in a different way.

I would love to see something like menu where you can change your active class, any time you want.

Then you could give the classes more diversity in the weapons they use. Ideally I would like to see each class get a choice between a few different weapons. Like Gladiator for example could use a sword, axe, polearm and each of these weapons could grant access to gladiator only abilities.

You could go one step further and add high end class restricted weapons too.

I'm not saying every class should be able to use every weapon, but having a choice between 2 or 3 options would be really nice.

[Drez]

I personally think a happy medium can be found. The idea of pre-constructed class templates seems like a good idea to me. It's been mentioned a little bit on this thread already I know.

They could add them in as quests you could perform after you reach a certain rank (20 or 25 maybe). If you want to unlock a Paladin template you go out and do the quest and on completion you now have access to a load out that gives you a pre-made ability set suitable for a Paladin as well as exclusive passive bonuses to promote the play style. You could even elaborate on a system like this and add in over Paladin template variants to unlock in game later on as the level cap gets raised and new abilities get added in.

There are of course a lot of "what if's" with this idea. Should you be able to tweak and alter the load outs to your liking while still keeping the passive bonuses? Would these load outs be accessible across all classes? Would you need to have the abilities on the template already unlocked from other classes first? Or would they be abilities exclusive to the template that no class would normally have?

It's a lot to work out. But I think a system like this would not only give classes more direction and uniqueness. But also encourage people to start trying to mix, match, and test abilities in new ways they may never of considered before.

[Peregrine]

If real jobs are going to be made from or stem off these current classes, what am I gonna do with a R50 conjurer? Will I have to start over on White Mage? I pretty much already levelled it once. Same way with BLM. If "real" jobs are unlocked by playing basic jobs, there has to be some kind of benefit from raising basic jobs high.

What I'd like to see is class overlays. Jobs like blm or whm would be jobs that you overlay onto your basic conjurer that unlocks specific stat alignments, buffs, and abilities. Thaumas and Conjurers can both overlay any mage, but they have minor differences in unlocking some abilities and have a few unique abilities. Whm and blm would not be jobs you would grind. They would be overlays that you earned for the classes that you already levelled.

Thus, if you have a R50 thm and R50 conj, you don't have to level BlM and WHM to 50. You would just have to earn the BLM and WHM overlays through questing and things.

They could make it different quests for different levels. Do you have your R20 whm overlay completed? R30? R40? R50?

Conjurer

[Aldarin]

I feel that a large portion of the game is that sandbox feeling. The ability to play characters that mix and match abilities for the player's preference. I also feel that a large portion of the complains come from a lack of ability to indicate your party role. When looking at a player it is great to see what equipment they are using, but what role they play is not dependent on their equipment, which hinders play due to unknown roles.

This could easily be fixed by simply allowing players to indicate what party role they are currently playing. This could be done through the ability to call a character by a traditional job title, or simply by allowing players to indicate their archetype ( Tank, Healer, DD, Debuff, Support, Nuker, etc.). let players indicate primary specialization and a secondary specialization. This way people can indicate they are playing a Paladin (Primary Tank, Secondary Healer), a BLM (Primary Nuker, Secondary Nuker), or so on. This would clear up a large number of complaints in the game due to lack of specified role.

The point of the current system is to allow players more freedom to choose who their character is. We can thus see monk like characters that are wielding a Great Sword, a paladin with a Great Axe, a Dark Knight wielding a Lance and casting lightning bolts, etc....

[gifthorse]

When they introduce the classic FF jobs, I hope they implement them in such a way, for example, as a specialisation, so that the armory system is still functional.

Having weapon/magic-type specialists (and then designing your own role from there) makes more sense in terms of realism than any other system.

[JakeRoon]

Great Idea, happy to support it.

You can make any "class" from FFxi you want with this armory system, heck 90% of the skills do the same thing, and 40% have the same dang names.

[AlexiaKidd]

The current system is no where near as flexible as you make it out to be. If equip a staff there is no way I could make a MNK class that uses a staff as I would be a CON. If I invite a GLA to a party I am doing so because I expect them to tank, if they turn up and say sorry but I have made this class an RDM then off you go because that is not what I wanted to help the party. If I invite a CON I expect it to main heal or nuke. The weapon already defines the class and that is the problem, they need actual classes that can use different weapons.

[Seif]

Short version:

You are right jobs are balanced so that they encourage group play and require different strategies to be played well.

Classes are all basically the same where you hit the action button until you don't care anymore.

I really would want pre- XII jobs to return and if they threw out all the current classes I'd be more than happy.

[JakeRoon]

Alexia, Your post suggests that everyone should play their character in the way "you" expect them to, rather than allowing someone to enjoy playing their character the way "they" want to.

Also , there is nothing stopping you from being a Conj that uses mostly monk skills if you desire to play in that manner. You would just be using a staff. Are you labeled a CONJ sure....but is that what you are? I say you are what you choose to be.