Let Players Speed Run Again

[technole]

If you aren't DPSing as a healer even if your tank pulls the whole dungeon you're not doing something right. You should always be able to dps and heal regardless of the pull size if even moderately geared.

Agreed. I don't care if it's just shadow flare and throwing a few DoTs on as SCH, or WHM tossing on the DS>Regen, then Swiftcast>Holy. Still plenty of room to squeeze some damage in, and I still think many WHMs forget that Holy does stun which can help the tank take less damage.

[Zedd702]

If you aren't DPSing as a healer even if your tank pulls the whole dungeon you're not doing something right. You should always be able to dps and heal regardless of the pull size if even moderately geared.

Not entirely true...

Agreed. I don't care if it's just shadow flare and throwing a few DoTs on as SCH, or WHM tossing on the DS>Regen, then Swiftcast>Holy. Still plenty of room to squeeze some damage in, and I still think many WHMs forget that Holy does stun which can help the tank take less damage.

Again, not entirely true...

And here's why: You both fail to even look at the possibilities of the tank and his/her gear in question, before assuming the healer is not doing something right. I've been in this situation when I cast SC and shadowflare and before my heal could hit the tank he was dead.

Also regarding Holy, even with Swiftcast, start up on this power lags and by then the tank and healer can take quite a lot of damage before the stun takes effect. Not saying it's impossible, but it's more situational, than it is as black & white as the two of you put it...

[Noahlimits]

Not entirely true...

Maybe this is a case of 'git gud'? I've done countless expert roulettes with tanks that were no higher than i95-100, and as long as they do some semblance of a cooldown rotation it's easy peazy.

First big pull:

-SS+Eye for an eye before first pull
-Cleric Stance
-Pre enable swift cast
-Holy x 3
-Benediction
-Holy x 3

And by that point the pull should be dead. On future pulls when you don't have bene, that's when you weave in divine seal and regen.

Obviously if you have a i95 tank who uses 0 cooldowns you won't be able to keep them up. But those tanks wouldn't want to do speed runs in the first place. Tanks who aren't geared in 99% of cases won't be experienced or willing to do speed runs. So your second point is moot.

[Zedd702]

Hot air

Of course you'd get upset when someone calls you out on a valid point... I actually expected that. Perhaps you should read your post again... "no higher than 90-100 ilvl" what dungeon do you know, outside of primals and coils has this high of a requirement? Know what you're talking about before you come at me like that. And AGAIN, you quote a distinct situation where you can DPS. Hence the word situational...

So put some salt, pepper and paprika and whatever other seasoning you prefer on your "git good" and eat those words.

The rest of your post you should have probably just deleted, because you pretty much typed nonsense...

[Noahlimits]

Of course you'd get upset when someone calls you out on a valid point... I actually expected that. Perhaps you should read your post again... "no higher than 90-100 ilvl" what dungeon do you know, outside of primals and coils has this high of a requirement? Know what you're talking about before you come at me like that. So put some salt, pepper and paprika and whatever other seasoning you prefer on your "git good" and eat those words.

The rest of your post you should have probably just deleted, because you pretty much typed nonsense...

What expert dungeon do you know has tanks trying to speed run or pull big groups that aren't at least i90? If your tank is below that and trying to speed run any new dungeon, he's terrible and expecting his healer to carry him.

Your only point was basically "what if your tank sucks / is undergeared and does big pulls anyways?". Simple, let them die. I also like how a proper rotation and statements of badly geared / bad tanks attempting to do speed runs being bad is "hot air".

As far as "knowing what I'm talking about", I'm a i130 WHM with t13 on farm. I'd say that adds to my credibility a lot more than anything you can say. "Git Gud" if you think that healers shouldn't dps in almost any and every dungeon situation.

[Zedd702]

What expert dungeon do you know has tanks trying to speed run or pull big groups that aren't at least i90? If your tank is below that and trying to speed run any new dungeon, he's terrible.

Your only point was basically "what if your tank sucks / is undergeared and does big pulls anyways?". Simple, let them die.

LOL... I see discussion with you is pointless... I never put in any "what-ifs," that's your assumption of the word I used, which was "situational"

lern2reed...

I've seen MANY tanks enter dungeons with bare bone ilvls with a mix of healer and dps accessories and pull big mobs, when their HP is less than some DPS on the team. You need to queue DF sometime and get off your static or FC runs to see what I'm talking about.

EDIT: Now I see here we go with "I farm coils all day, so I am right and you are wrong." I'm sorry for stepping on your toes when you said the sky was red, you're right... I'll go back to reality.

I also like how a proper rotation and statements of badly geared / bad tanks attempting to do speed runs being bad is "hot air".

As far as "knowing what I'm talking about", I'm a i130 WHM with t13 on farm. I'd say that adds to my credibility a lot more than anything you can say. "Git Gud" if you think that healers shouldn't dps in almost any and every dungeon situation.

Since you decided to add more after this post I'll respond to this as well here. I never said healers can't DPS, it's their call if they want to or not and it's also situational at times where they can't...
Don't put words in my mouth because you fail to comprehend what I am actually saying...

[Noahlimits]

LOL... I see discussion with you is pointless... I never put in any "what-ifs," that's your assumption of the word I used, which was "situational"

lern2reed...

I've seen MANY tanks enter dungeons with bare bone ilvls with a mix of healer and dps accessories and pull big mobs, when their HP is less than some DPS on the team. You need to queue DF sometime and get off your static or FC runs to see what I'm talking about.

I DF daily and never see tanks with less HP than DPS pulling like that. Maybe you've just had incredibly bad experiences. Or me good experiences. /shrug

And again, good healers should dps in EVERY dungeon situation. No "what-ifs" about it.

[Ellatrix]

Also regarding Holy, even with Swiftcast, start up on this power lags and by then the tank and healer can take quite a lot of damage before the stun takes effect. Not saying it's impossible, but it's more situational, than it is as black & white as the two of you put it...

False, you can force the stun to take effect immediately if you know what you're doing.

[Zedd702]

False, you can force the stun to take effect immediately if you know what you're doing.

Ellatrix, Don't start with me. You already know you and I, hell you and the world even, rarely see eye to eye on anything...

Back to the Coils with ye...

[Asherek]

Ellatrix, Don't start with me. You already know you and I, hell you and the world even, rarely see eye to eye on anything...

Back to the Coils with ye...

Dislike of a person doesn't change the fact that that person is correct and you are incorrect.