Let Players Speed Run Again

[Spoekes]

Actually, in my opinion, the current solution in the dungeons is trying to cater to both the speed runner and the player that just hit the item level requirement for the dungeon or someone new to the dungeon.
It's a fair middle ground.

If you make Trash harder to the point it is a challenge for ilvl110+ players, you must raise the level cap, which is not inline the ilvl 90 drops in there.
The other solution would be to reimplement the levelsynch to High level and Expert dungeons and have a challenge, so that you can see the dungeon is not too easy, you are just way too overgeared.

You just cannot make every one happy.
tbh, I hope you stay unhappy in this regard.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Actually, in my opinion, the current solution in the dungeons is trying to cater to both the speed runner and the player that just hit the item level requirement for the dungeon or someone new to the dungeon.
It's a fair middle ground.

If you make Trash harder to the point it is a challenge for ilvl110+ players, you must raise the level cap, which is not inline the ilvl 90 drops in there.
The other solution would be to reimplement the levelsynch to High level and Expert dungeons and have a challenge, so that you can see the dungeon is not too easy, you are just way too overgeared.

You just cannot make every one happy.
tbh, I hope you stay unhappy in this regard.

it's very easy to make me happy. Just SE does everything wrong about it. I can think of several things they can do way better than they do now.

Taking away the stop zones in every area is a good start. You have no real counter-argument other than to say no basically. If there were no stop zones, people can go what ever speed they want. The argument goes back and further except to this regard, if you have your way people can ONLY go slow. Where in my cause you can go slow or fast, everyone wins


You have a keyboard type you want to go slow. If they doen't want to then when they die over and over they'll get the hint. If they boot you, you want to go slow anyway so whats another 10 minute wait before the next group?

[Ogulbuk]

Taking away the stop zones in every area is a good start. You have no real counter-argument other than to say no basically.

From a game designer point of view [not for this game, obviously]: rewards. Rewards tend to be balanced around the idea "how long will it take the average player to complete X". Sometimes the risk factor (chance for failure) is also factored, but the #1 point is how long will it take for X to be done and how fast we want Y to be awarded. Stop gaps (locked doors, death traps, spawn triggers) are all tools that can be used to enforce the speed that is desired to meet the expected completion time averages.

[Cerick]

it's very easy to make me happy. Just SE does everything wrong about it....Where in my cause you can go slow or fast, everyone wins...

Sadly, everyone does not win in your scenario. Look at the situation from the SE side. In the past with AK / WP speed runs, there was griefing against non speed runners or specific classes or players that just were not that great at the game and were not capable of speed runs. The outcry led to folks leaving the game. In your situation, you are saying that those who want to go at a slower pace can bash their heads with wipes over and over and then be kicked or create a party finder group? This right here then takes the whole point of the duty finder away from them to join a random group quickly and get content done, but it makes you happy.. so that's all that matters am I right? To you perhaps that really is all that matters, to SE though if players are leaving the game due to speed runs being the forced and norm, then it is lost revenue... eventually you won't have a game to play if there is no money to support it.

Believe it or not, but the casuals and slow pacers actually pay the bills, the elite raiders, edge of your seat speed runners are not the majority. I myself enjoy speed runs and I would rather do them because I want to get in and out ASAP, but I also understand why some things are done in this game to slow the pace a little and I accept that since I still enjoy the game. If speed running is a make or break for you, then it is very possible that FF14 just isn't the game for you any longer. No one can make that choice but you. I hope you find a sense of patience and can slow yourself down a moment to actually enjoy the game you are playing.

[Jinrya-Geki]

...

People leave this game for many reasons, mostly because SE lies half the time about something, or makes something needlessly dumber than it should be. Coil Reward System/Chocobo raising/housing/Wedding/FATES/Relic/PVP... I can go onto how every single on of these things are bad and how they could be done better. You could just look at every thread on the forum and one of the things I mentioned will be there.

If you can't handle going fast, then you shouldn't be using duty finder, you should be using party finder to find like-minded individuals. I have nothing against that, I would go any speed the party wants. Slow or fast, that's up to my party. However I am not going to sit there and pretend to be happy about another dumb system trying to "artificially" make something longer than it is. If a party can handle pulling everything between each boss I should be able to.

[Stihllodeing]

...snip...If you can't handle going fast, then you shouldn't be using duty finder, you should be using party finder to find like-minded individuals. I have nothing against that, I would go any speed the party wants...snip....

So let me get this straight. If someone uses a party finder and specifies they want to go slow (aka the pace the game was developed) and you (joined that party?) you would go the speed they wanted and not have a problem with it?

And just for the record, not that you said this, I think it is backwards to use the party finder for "pug groups" and the DF for "pros". This is the only mmo I've seen ever have that mentality. It's "Pick up Group" for crying out loud. That term has been around forever and applies to all kinds of things. "Never know what you'll get" has always been synonymous with it as well.

[Ellatrix]

I think it is backwards to use the party finder for "pug groups" and the DF for "pros"

JP datacenters do this. Strangely, JP servers also have significantly higher clear rates on all content.

It isn't backwards at all, because you can continue to practice with a PF group, as well as have a common connection when going to learn content. In DF, everyone just executes their role and the boss dies. It's much better, and it would be much nicer just to be able to queue DF and expect to farm instead of run into scrubs who say "hi im new btw i dont know anything" and think it's ok and not a gross waste of time for the other people unfortunate enough to be queued into that party.

[Jinrya-Geki]

So let me get this straight. If someone uses a party finder and specifies they want to go slow (aka the pace the game was developed) and you (joined that party?) you would go the speed they wanted and not have a problem with it?

And just for the record, not that you said this, I think it is backwards to use the party finder for "pug groups" and the DF for "pros". This is the only mmo I've seen ever have that mentality. It's "Pick up Group" for crying out loud. That term has been around forever and applies to all kinds of things. "Never know what you'll get" has always been synonymous with it as well.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with going slow. The party doesn't bother me, it's the mechanics making it slow. If you could straight shot to all the boss with every single enemy as an option, but the party was slow I wouldn't care. The option to go faster is still there.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

No, I wouldn't have a problem with going slow. The party doesn't bother me, it's the mechanics making it slow. If you could straight shot to all the boss with every single enemy as an option, but the party was slow I wouldn't care. The option to go faster is still there.

So we're again back to the fact that you'd prefer if all dungeons were more like Brayflox HM, guildhests, or even Coil turns? Basically short, ungated in any way, and able to be bypassed almost entirely for the sake of ONE particular play style?

Imagine for a moment if I were a dev, and I listened to that and made every dungeon a glorified enemy gauntlet that you didn't even really need to fight. . . what would even be the point? I said it before, but why not just copy-paste the same backdrop and throw in some random enemies that pose no threat? Might as well make them i55 considering no one's really going to bother with them. . .

I'll tell you why. Because THAT is boring. That's the kind of content you run once and never bother again. It's boring, uninspired, and if enemies are designed to be bypassed, then why bother putting them there in the first place?

Sorry Jinraya, but this is what you make it seem like, and fact is, that would be the most boring content in the game if created that way. Mechanics keep things interesting and engaging, gates and drops control pacing. Because even if you don't speed run, you WILL learn the dungeon and do it faster anyways (speed run or no). And the last thing we need is more players standing around Mor Dhona complaining that there's nothing to do or not enough interesting content.

[Stihllodeing]

No, I wouldn't have a problem with going slow. The party doesn't bother me, it's the mechanics making it slow. If you could straight shot to all the boss with every single enemy as an option, but the party was slow I wouldn't care. The option to go faster is still there.

Yes you've mentioned that. The point I'm making is that you specifically say people who can't go fast shouldn't be using the duty finder but the party finder in order to find like minded individuals. You're in the wrong forums. That mentality isn't accepted as meta here.

In turn, if you would go into the JP Community Forums and mention vise-versa you'd be met with similar resistance, or so I've heard. I also intentionally left out the "but the JP players" because when I'm making an argument, their ethnicity, country of origin, etcetera is omitted due to irrelevance....unless it's relevant, which it's not here.

Anyway, the duty roulette exemplifies exactly what is was meant for. SE seems clear about it and I agree. Yes there would be ways to make dungeons "speed run accessible" but quit trying to make someone else's norm our norm. JP is JP, NA is NA, and EU is EU, and purple people eaters are purple people eaters.

As someone else mentioned, keep up with organizing your ideas and refine them through reposts and rethreads. Some of them aren't bad.