SE enough of the treadmill, please make the game more interesting!

[Zarzak]

No, we'd just point out that older MMOs were grindy too, and perhaps you should wipe the rose color off of your glasses.

Still play.. So sorry no rose color here. They are grindy. Modern MMOs are MORE grindy.

That is called telling a lie.

Do tell. This should be a good read.

[Teryaani]

Still play.. So sorry no rose color here. They are grindy. Modern MMOs are MORE grindy.

You'll have to forgive my skepticism, but for me to believe a word of that, you'll need to quantify how they're less. The mechanisms in Everquest/WoW and the like were the same pain points (and in many cases, much much worse than those) we feel in FFXIV. First off, what MMO are you talking about?

[Zarzak]

You'll have to forgive my skepticism, but for me to believe a word of that, you'll need to quantify how they're less. The mechanisms in Everquest/WoW and the like were the same pain points (and in many cases, much much worse than those) we feel in FFXIV. First off, what MMO are you talking about?

EQ and WoW are literally the 2 opposite ends of the spectrum so I'm not sure where you are going with that.

Never stated FFXIV specifically. I said modern MMOs. XIV takes the unique approach of just not having anything.

The trend of Modern MMOs....

Solo 1000000 yellow ! points to hit level cap.

Do dailies every day until they release more dailies to do every day.

-Grind 2000 different factions (usually done via the dailies)

Grind your weekly quota of currency (via the exact same dungeons populated exactly the same every time with the exact same bosses positioned in exactly the same way)


As I said XIV avoids some of these. (Not forcing beast tribes for the most part which is the dailies/factions of XIV). The lovely yellow ! mark solo grind WoW made popular is here in force as well as those fantastic dungeon instances.

Older MMOs (EQ and XI being the largest) you rarely ever do the same thing 2 days in a row. Hell even if you did return to the same location it would change due to degrees of randomness that exist in the open world in most cases.

None of this

"Ok you zone into Wandering Palace and there will be 2 tonberries up ahead, then you turn right and run 50 ft where you will encounter 2 vulchers next to a treasure chest, Then turn left and go up the stairs where a "trap" (because you will be surprised right!?) Will spawn ~8 little bugs. Continue on a couple feet to the next room with 2 birds and a tonberry. Turn left and you will encounter a couple slugs and another tonberry. Continue around the pool to the right and you will encounter a hall with a few slugs and pugils with a few more in the room at the end with a door and a tonberry. Kill these then proceed through the now open door. Surprise! There is a boss up with a battle field all prepared for you. Don't worry he is in the exact same place he was the last 100 times and will be there every time."


I could go on but I think the point is clear. Welcome to doing the exact same dungeon 1000 times for your currency.

Wonder why bots weren't rampant in the older days? Because the randomness factor made it impossible to do anything with a simple "record these series of events" program. These days you could literally set up a full group of bots to do an instance by simply recording a run through then hitting replay. It will happen the exact same way every time.

[Duelle]

Still play.. So sorry no rose color here. They are grindy. Modern MMOs are MORE grindy.

No one would deny that modern MMOs aren't grindy. What I will say is that modern MMOs are better at hiding the grind because they give you context and objectives for the grind instead of throwing you out there and having you kill the same mob over and over ad nauseam to get anything done.

So you're hailing something that has no context with a tendency to drive a normal person to tears as better than something that has context and an objective built in with clear labels for progression and a reward at the end that more often than not is reasonable for the time spent (Atma grinds notwithstanding). And then you say you don't have rose-colored goggles on.

Det, Crit, Acc, Skill or Spell Speed; these(for the most part) are the only stats you ever get to play around with, and after 3 Coils worth of BiS set making I've lost most of my interest.

Ignoring the fact that gear swaps broke too many things about FFXI to count, would you rather we have extra stats that will eventually have to be removed to keep class performance balanced and because item budgets were getting too big for the amount of power the devs wanted players to have? It ain't much better.

I try WoW for the first time yesterday and I am so surprised they have so much element like race stat and traits and nature element all those stuff... Compare ffxiv i say they are too slack on it is like 1% compare to wow if they want to keep the interest any long they need to add fire water earth and wind as a new gear stat and make it huge different in the future

Elemental resistances in WoW are not any more useful than ours. The only difference was that at one point you had classes with abilities that could enhance elemental resistances (paladins with their auras, shaman with their resistance totems), and even then that was only useful on specific bosses.

WoW at one point had: Spell Hit (accuracy), Spell Crit, Spell Haste, Expertise (decreased mob's chances of parrying and dodging your attacks), Ranged Crit, Hit Rating (AkA accuracy), and Healing Spellpower. ALL of those are gone, either blended into main stats or simply removed from the game.

Blizzard has fumbled around with additional stats before, and what they're doing with WoD is no different (I have a feeling stuff like multistrike will come back and bite them in the ass in the future).

[Zarzak]

I try WoW for the first time yesterday and I am so surprised they have so much element like race stat and traits and nature element all those stuff... Compare ffxiv i say they are too slack on it is like 1% compare to wow if they want to keep the interest any long they need to add fire water earth and wind as a new gear stat and make it huge different in the future

Elemental stats have not mattered in WoW for years... In original sure... But that went the way of everything else in favor of making it so easy a caveman can do it.

No one would deny that modern MMOs aren't grindy. What I will say is that modern MMOs are better at hiding the grind because they give you context and objectives for the grind instead of throwing you out there and having you kill the same mob over and over ad nauseam to get anything done.

So you're hailing something that has no context with a tendency to drive a normal person to tears as better than something that has context and an objective built in with clear labels for progression and a reward at the end that more often than not is reasonable for the time spent (Atma grinds notwithstanding). And then you say you don't have rose-colored goggles on.

Yes. Because you weren't FORCED to do anything to progress. Literally EVERY activity within the game would progress your character. Pick among 20+ zones and likely 20+ camps per zone and go to town. At your own pace. And that is just if you're talking exp being the focus of your day. Want to go back a few expansions and try and 1 group old raid bosses? Still going to progress your character.

WoW made popular the "weekly reset" and it is the biggest pain in the ass ever. "Get your 450 currency before Tuesday or your SoL. Oh and btw the only way to get it is to do 45 S-ranks/Coils or do the same 100% scripted dungeons over and over.



For the record the relic is a terrible example of any of this. There is 0 challenge. The highest end content the relic weapon requires is the very 1st step to kill the hard mode primals. Instead of needing the fang of twintania or something I am apparently making the ultimate weapon by killing level 4 fates.