So Second Coil has been destroyed

[Alukah]

Well, I didn't really expect such heavy nerfs to the mechanics of the fight, not right off the bat at least. I mean, t2 allagan rot still blows people to smithereens, right? Or maybe that was changed too (if it did, it definitely wasn't on the first nerf, I'm sure... I think)...

First coil turns outside t5 can be done with a blindfold and your hands tied up. For t2 specifically people just enrage and spam heal. Turn 5 itself, I don't know if it received any nerfs but IMO the hardest part is knowing how to use focus target.

Second coild will just be as farmable as first coil, probably a bit less.

While T9 got no nerfs I guess the extra DPS from echo will help to get to / past golems fast and ghosts will be a bit less of a threat, though I highly doubt a DF group will even get to Heavensfall.

[Snugglebutt]

Personally I want to go through the same hardships of wiping and learning that others had to go through in order to progress. While I don't mind echo because I can turn that off I feel like I get cheated out of an experience with nerfs like this.

No you don't. You are not cheated out of anything, do savage mode instead.

[Taika]

The people actually against this are for the most part people who's egos depend on treating others like something they step on or they might lose some profits from selling clears on this content.

This is a load of bull. People who I know are against these nerfs, including myself, appreciate the value of clearing these fights unnerfed and don't want to take that chance away from people who don't happen to have as much time for the game, or a static, or whatever. Progressing slower than the top or even medium speed groups does not mean you're an incompetent player who needs all central mechanics removed or nerfed to be able to clear content. In addition, nerfs only do a disservice because they remove the valuable learning experiences these turns offered, the experiences that help the people who've been able to clear them to make progress in the following turns.

Edit: Me or my FC never have and never will sell runs. We organise learning groups instead.

[Garlyle]

Well, I didn't really expect such heavy nerfs to the mechanics of the fight, not right off the bat at least. I mean, t2 allagan rot still blows people to smithereens, right? Or maybe that was changed too (if it did, it definitely wasn't on the first nerf, I'm sure... I think)...

I don't believe Allagan Rot was ever changed. That said show me turn 2 groups who still actually deal with Rot instead of going for the soft enrage method.

[RinKaen]

I liked doing scob, the /original/ mechanics were fun. Now I won't have fun anymore.

[Osmond]

This is a load of bull. People who I know are against these nerfs, including myself, appreciate the value of clearing these fights unnerfed and don't want to take that chance away from people who don't happen to have as much time for the game, or a static, or whatever. Progressing slower than the top or even medium speed groups does not mean you're an incompetent player who needs all central mechanics removed or nerfed to be able to clear content. In addition, nerfs only do a disservice because they remove the valuable learning experiences these turns offered, the experiences that help the people who've been able to clear them to make progress in the following turns.

But we all know we not gonna keep playing that content overtime, teaching new players of the mechanics, positioning, etc. Mind you they do monitor what players do in the game and they know those who do complete that content do not go back unless there's a very good reason.

[Mutemutt]

First coil turns outside t5 can be done with a blindfold and your hands tied up. For t2 specifically people just enrage and spam heal. Turn 5 itself, I don't know if it received any nerfs but IMO the hardest part is knowing how to use focus target.

Second coild will just be as farmable as first coil, probably a bit less.

Well yeah, but it wasn't a mechanic nerf; that was just people outgearing or maybe you could say just brute forcing it with extra heals (and echo later on, of course). There was only the paralysis change to lessen the need for a bard/monk silence as far as I remember.

Still, I could go back and handle the rot method if I wanted to.

[Garlyle]

I liked doing scob, the /original/ mechanics were fun. Now I won't have fun anymore.

The mechanics aren't gone.

They're just not going to be instant full party wipes anymore. If they're so severely undertuned that they get straight up ignored it might be a problem (what ended up happening between gear and echo to Turn 1/4), but I suspect you're still really, really going to want the entire party not to be petrified for 10 seconds every 30 or so.

[Snugglebutt]

This is a load of bull. People who I know are against these nerfs, including myself, appreciate the value of clearing these fights unnerfed and don't want to take that chance away from people who don't happen to have as much time for the game, or a static, or whatever. Progressing slower than the top or even medium speed groups does not mean you're an incompetent player who needs all central mechanics removed or nerfed to be able to clear content. In addition, nerfs only do a disservice because they remove the valuable learning experiences these turns offered, the experiences that help the people who've been able to clear them to make progress in the following turns.

Edit: Me or my FC never have and never will sell runs. We organise learning groups instead.

I do not believe you. You still have savage mode without the nerfs so whining about the non-savage version is for other reasons. Other than one main mechanic change on one coil the rest of the mechanics are pretty much the same only with reduced damage or less time debuffed on the original second coils but like said you still have savage version if the challenge was all you wanted.

[Taika]

But we all know we not gonna keep playing that content overtime, teaching new players of the mechanics, positioning, etc. Mind you they do monitor what players do in the game and they know those who do complete that content do not go back unless there's a very good reason.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what but I'd at least go back to any turn our members want to learn.

I do not believe you at all. You still have savage mode without the nerfs so whining about the non-savage version is for other reasons.

I don't think Savage mode is what majority of players are interested in doing. However, it's a good example in the sense that I haven't personally started clearing it and would be very disappointed if it would get nerfed before I'll have the time to do it. I know people feel similarly about normal Coil and I would feel too if I hadn't beaten second yet (and which is why I'm also focusing all my event time on FC now to be able to clear it before it gets nerfed).