When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Tiggy]

Although you can't be more wrong about me hating your ...um.. "lost people" ?

Phone typo. My b.

Let's be honest,the elite people at the top of the mountain don't want too many people climbing up to stand at the same place as they are,since that would make them feel their achievement become somewhat less glorified. Meanwhile there are new people struggling to climb up the same mountain but started out too late and keep getting rejected by most of their forerunners for the aforementioned reason. See the problem ? You are in one camp,or the other. The difference in stance is pretty much clear for both.

So I helped those 3 people get wins for no reason? I enjoy getting more people into the later turns. I like getting more people in our FC through the coils so we have more to do pick up groups with for secondary and tertiary jobs or to do what we call "alternate job coil day!". It's not so black and wait as elite non-elite, raider non-raider, casual hardcore. There are genuinely people who do believe that going through the turns helps you develop skills that you can use in later fights and that it's good for you. There are also people like that who genuinely like helping people. It's this ridiculous black and white attitude coming from some people that assumes all raiders or all people who think learning from these fights is good are just terrible awful bad people who are doing nothing more than propagating a conspiracy of suppression against the n00bs or something.

Believing the turns to be a good learning tool and right of passage into harder content is not mutually exclusive to being a helpful individual. You can be both.

Believing that meeting people and making friends helps you get content done easier than party finder doesn't make me a bad person either.

[Sadonix]

-snips-

Sorry,but I've been backtracking your post in this thread and you seem to be using "those 3 people" as a prime example for making your point. Not saying it's an act that doesn't deserve commendation -if it's true- but for all we know it was just your words that you did good and you seem to be boasting about it a lot for such a helpful person. Assuming you actually were Mother Teresa and did help those people,it's still just a drop of water in the vast ocean. Doesn't make much difference,tbh. I passed t5 a long time ago and still dreaded whenever someone asked me to jump back into it,surely I just can't match your benevolence.

Btw since it seems this is starting to get dragged into more and more defensively individual debate and less about what the OP actually want I'm going to leave this thread out at that. Just want to be clear,I don't intend to antagonize anyone so you don't need to worry about being made a "bad person". As mentioned above,it's just nature of the game,and you roll with it until you become too tired to continue

you can't learn a fight in the pf. I did one shiva ex group and figured that out quick enough. party starts, people are on different points in the fight, and people drop out after a couple wipes because people with little-no experience aren't getting the mechanics. then you get new people who need mechanics re-explained and more people drop out because now it's been over an hour and you have made 0 progress. repeat until party disbands.

Actually most of my clears come from learning and experiencing it with PUGs. It's a very tedious and sanity testing process though,your own perseverance play the most important part in it. I might get even further with more raids but honestly, I question if it's even worth all the trouble and time repeating the same with t10-13 all over again for me.

That's a baseless assumption.

Where do you suppose a lot of raid guides come from?

Some people take pride in guiding others since it shows that they have really done the job and get past the ordeal,but it's one thing to give a lettered guide and another to jump down in trying to achieve a clear with other people. A lettered guide wouldn't even matter if no one want you to take part in actual run.

And it's not a baseless assumption at all. What with the amounts of "kick 100 sol","clear only","show me 1 loot as proof" and the amount of elitists coming in to tell how people suck and just quit on spot even in a learning party,it's only fair to come to that conclusion.

[CGMidlander]

Some people take pride in guiding others since it shows that they have really done the job and get past the ordeal,but it's one thing to give a lettered guide and another to jump down in trying to achieve a clear with other people. A lettered guide wouldn't even matter if no one want you to take part in actual run.

Time is a limited resource. There's no feasible way for anyone to personally help every person they come across that might need help.
Therefore, personal help is usually limited to only friends, FC members, and linkshells.

And it's not a baseless assumption at all. What with the amounts of "kick 100 sol","clear only","show me 1 loot as proof" and the amount of elitists coming in to tell how people suck and just quit on spot even in a learning party,it's only fair to come to that conclusion.

Just because a certain type of player screams the loudest and tends to leave a more lasting impression, doesn't necessarily mean they are the majority.

[Tiggy]

Sorry,but I've been backtracking your post in this thread and you seem to be using "those 3 people" as a prime example for making your point. Not saying it's an act that doesn't deserve commendation -if it's true- but for all we know it was just your words that you did good and you seem to be boasting about it a lot for such a helpful person.

The point is every person who raids out there isn't a terrible horrible person who doesn't want to help, but let's focus on that part and not the overall message.

[NyarukoW]

The point is every person who raids out there isn't a terrible horrible person who doesn't want to help, ...

And you felt compelled to defend their so-called honor, why?

They are not terrible until they start insulting everyone else on the forums with terms like "lazy", "no iniative", "don't listen", "won't learn", "spoon fed", etc. etc. The vast majority of the player base just want the opportunity to learn and progress, and preferably without drama, even if it takes more than 50 wipes and lots of waiting and learning. If they are limited in the there ability and time, surely can do stick to doing nothing, and not go out of their way to do less than nothing. Yet you seem here making all sorts of false accusations.

[Kazumac]

And you felt compelled to defend their so-called honor, why?

They are not terrible until they start insulting everyone else on the forums with terms like "lazy", "no iniative", "don't listen", "won't learn", "spoon fed", etc. etc. The vast majority of the player base just want the opportunity to learn and progress, and preferably without drama, even if it takes more than 50 wipes and lots of waiting and learning. If they are limited in the there ability and time, surely can do stick to doing nothing, and not go out of their way to do less than nothing. Yet you seem here making all sorts of false accusations.

Uh oh we were having a relatively civil discussion on how to approach advice giving etc... NyarukoW is here, time to get the popcorn! I bet they'll try to bring clear sellers into the discussion soon!

Edit: lol I hadn't read page 14 when I posted this... Yup this thread is now about clear sellers...