When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Saseal]

There is indeed a certain lack of sympathy for players who don't run content on Day 1. If you don't know how to run something beyond Day 2, it seems like most people are apt to criticize you for being an idiot because they know how to run it and you don't.

Coil especially has been just one big, long, tiresome headache. I have never once cleared Turns 4 or 5. Not for lack of trying, mind. But it seems to me unless you are in a static or raiding FC and you have some form of audio comms, you are destined to fail Coil with a 99% probability. And yet a lot of people say it's the easiest thing in the world in such a way that it feels like they're implying it is my own fault for not having cleared T5 yet.

That really reminds me of my last few coil plays (2 and 4 mainly).

I got '/slap''ed for DFing into T2, and not having Mumble to be told about Enrage. It doesn't take that long to say, "With ADS enraged, use medica/medica II 1-2 times per burst."
There. Took me five seconds to type (and for them to type). And 4 mins to wait for Enrage to kick in when we got to ADS anyway.
I'd done turn 2 before anyway and already knew about that... but I had heard there were different skills removed/left in based on the path taken, so I wanted clarity on what THIS group was prefering to do (and the last time I went, it wasn't described as Enraged - 'just medica')

Went into Turn 4...
Me: "Heyos, haven't done this one before"
Tank: "Don't fsck it up."
Right off the bat. >_> Thanks.
No one died nor was it a terrible run. It was actually quite smooth.
But still. Yeesh.

Players need to chillax on these coils.

[ChibiChan_Hyperion]

I know this as my extremely super casual FC that focuses on community and helping new players has helped a member or two through T5 to get their clear... And now they still have to go back and practice that content to improve their skills before they are ready for second coil...

Why would they go back and practice more T5 when they're up to Second Coil? They should be practicing Second Coil.

[Remus]

Seems people are stuck in the "make it to the top" mindset. I get really tired when people tell me "oh find a raiding FC", "Make a Static", "Build your own party" and etc. Those are the worst reasons anyone can give. The only people saying these reasons are people most likely already in a static when they were already in a formed FC so they were first pick.

Ok, So people tell me find a raiding FC... I tried didn't work i joined one i didn't even end up in a raiding static i was just there in case someone didn't come. I tried another one and same result. People dont want to run previous content now it people on these forums don't understand this. Just shows how single minded most of this people are because they are not currently in the same situation your in. Most of them already have their statics and doing Final coil so they don't need to worry and they think it is so easy to form a static for the first coil and too be honest it isn't easy. Most of you guys are so anti-consumer its ridiculous. There are people and many different servers who can't experience Coil because its blocked off by the "You must have a static and be hardcore to finish this" They dont actually consider those who are unable to find and statics and WoW learned from this SE hasn't. Most just want to see the story and that's it not much. They don't care about the gear or anything just the story. As someone who went through all of first coil but haven't done second i can say the story is quite interesting and i can understand why people would want to know. Sadly it seems this community and to high elitist and think "Oh they should make no changes i went through a hard time to do said content" All i can say is you made that decision.

Holding back other players just so you can keep your elitism is just stupid. I can understand those who are unable to find a static for coil now. I mean most i see on my server people recruiting for Final coil and that's it. Trying to form one for first coil will take you quite a long time to form. This is all my opinion but honestly you guys really need to escape this elitist mentality because it is making the community look really bad and they don't care about people who want to progress.

I mean why do you care they nerf content you don't even do anymore? I mean really how self intitled do you need to be so defensive of nerfing content which you don't even touch anymore? Let other people do the nerfed content while you do the new content for the best gear. Why do you care casuals want a nerfed first coil? Oh what because you spent months on it? Well so did i and im all for nerfing it. I care about other people and not just myself and i want everyone to experience in some form of what i have done and see what the Binding Coil of Bahamut unfolds.

That was just my opinion and a strong one at that because im really tired of all these self intitled elitists in this forum that it hurts.

[Ellatrix]

Seems people are stuck in the "make it to the top" mindset. I get really tired when people tell me "oh find a raiding FC", "Make a Static", "Build your own party" and etc. Those are the worst reasons anyone can give. The only people saying these reasons are people most likely already in a static when they were already in a formed FC so they were first pick.

Build a static. Be a leader. This is how you get somewhere.

Your mindset is basically "sit back and hope someone fishes me out of the pool of everyone else"?

[Remus]

Build a static. Be a leader. This is how you get somewhere.

Your mindset is basically "sit back and hope someone fishes me out of the pool of everyone else"?

How can you tell me how i think? I have tried make a static actually and it failed because no one does it anymore so now your point is completely invalid so go away thank you I'm sure many have tried but had the same result as me. Don't speak as if you know what people are thinking because you don't. Your just saying what your thinking and thinking that i do that which i don't.

[Tiggy]

Seems people are stuck in the "make it to the top" mindset. I get really tired when people tell me "oh find a raiding FC", "Make a Static", "Build your own party" and etc. Those are the worst reasons anyone can give.

While raiding or statics are one thing but if you think people telling you to build a party is the worst advice anyone can give then please, stop playing this game. Building a party to get something done is the de facto standard in MMOs. If this is so difficult for you then you are very clearly in the wrong genre.

The only people saying these reasons are people most likely already in a static when they were already in a formed FC so they were first pick.

Baseless assumptions. Many people who don't raid will say the same thing because the results are clear. You don't have to be a raider to understand what gets the job done. No need to be so negative.

Holding back other players just so you can keep your elitism is just stupid.
...
I mean why do you care they nerf content you don't even do anymore? I mean really how self intitled do you need to be so defensive of nerfing content which you don't even touch anymore
..
That was just my opinion and a strong one at that because im really tired of all these self intitled elitists in this forum that it hurts.

I'm going to post this from an earlier in this thread because it's relevant.

People who know that all the content that follows is harder and that removing those mechanics wouldn't really anyone in a meaningful way. You'd only be removing a learning tool to help people practice simple mechanics in preparation for the crazier ones to come. Just because it's old does not mean it has no purpose. If you can't do the simple mechanics in T5 you are in for a world of hurt in the second coil, and instead of T5 needs nerfed threads we'll instead be having the same conversation about the "old content" of T6 and T7. It doesn't really change anything but the context of the conversation. People who struggle with T5 will continue to struggle with T6 and beyond.

You're opinion that it's all for "elitist" reasons makes your attitude as bad as real elitist raiders. It's toxic. It assumes people are elitist solely because they raid. It's as bad as racism as far as I'm concerned and you need to keep a more open mind about people instead of categorizing them all in this nasty bucket you seem to be giving them. As I pointed out above T5 still serves as a viable learning tool. It teaches you basic mechanics that are only elaborated on in further fights. FOR EXAMPLE the divebombs. You wait for a signal, move 4 feet and move 4 back. It is identical to the mechanic in T6 where you get a signal, run 4 feet through the boss, run 4 feet back. If you can't do it in T5 what makes you think T6 would be any different? T5 still serves a viable purpose for teaching mechanics.

You really need to get over this "everyone who disagrees with making coil is an elitist" attitude. It makes you worse than the elitists you clearly hate.

When it comes down to it you are the leader of your own destiny in an MMO. You are the only one that can make sure things get done. No one else. Make better friends that can come help you. Network. Join a LS that likes doing this stuff. Coming here and complaining about it will never get you any closer to getting it done but jumping in game and meeting people and trying to form a party will.

[Lemuria]

While raiding or statics are one thing but if you think people telling you to build a party is the worst advice anyone can give then please, stop playing this game. Building a party to get something done is the de facto standard in MMOs. If this is so difficult for you then you are very clearly in the wrong genre.

I think you intentionally missed most of the point here just to make your argument stick. The point is that the few people still interested in running this content as a static are the same people generally ALREADY in static parties.

New parties are slow to get off the ground because, to be frank, failure is frustrating and repeated failure is just maddening. It's easy to be on the inside looking out and telling people what they should be doing, but not so easy to be on the outside looking in and trying to do it. That's easily my biggest gripe with some of the attitudes displayed in this thread. Instead of looking at things objectively people are making grand assumptions that everyone who can't do this hasn't even made an effort to try.

There's also this huge stigma that if a player hasn't cleared a certain coil, regardless of their reasons, they're somehow a "worse" player than those who have. It makes getting into those groups far more difficult because they'll often refuse to take anyone on-board who doesn't have multiple clears under their belt. Heck, several groups ALREADY ask players to 'post their drops' before getting even a second-glance. So, even if you DID beat it but your gear didn't drop, oops.. too bad.

To be honest, if the 'endgame' crowd are the kind who look down their noses to everyone else then it's not the sort of clique I'd like to be associated with. I know there's some genuinely good groups out there which are far more tolerant, but the cacophony of trouble makers drowns them out, sadly.

[Kail]

At this point, clearing T5 shouldn't require a "static" --- it just requires a handful of skilled players. People cleared it with ilvl 70 gear. Now with Echo and ilvl 120 gear available, easily farmable ilvl 100 gear from Syrcus as well as ilvl 110 weapons, clearing T5 has never been easier. Yeah, you still need to deal with the same mechanics, but the gear has really trivialized all the DPS checks (conflags, snakes, dreadknights) as well as trivializing Death Sentence. You should be able to focus purely on the mechanics. Creating a party of people to run this, adding them to a linkshell or a friendslist and getting it cleared isn't unthinkable.

People are even running T6-8 fairly comfortably in the Party Finder, granted they're typically running farming parties, but there's no stopping you from making a learning party.

[Sadonix]

I mean why do you care they nerf content you don't even do anymore? I mean really how self intitled do you need to be so defensive of nerfing content which you don't even touch anymore? Let other people do the nerfed content while you do the new content for the best gear. Why do you care casuals want a nerfed first coil? Oh what because you spent months on it? Well so did i and im all for nerfing it. I care about other people and not just myself and i want everyone to experience in some form of what i have done and see what the Binding Coil of Bahamut unfolds.

Less progress for others mean more ego for some. Wouldn't want too many people clearing scob now,would you ? Too many people might make it to t13 before your little group and it wouldn't make you feel special anymore.

[Tiggy]

I think you intentionally missed most of the point here just to make your argument stick. The point is that the few people still interested in running this content as a static are the same people generally ALREADY in static parties.

..

To be honest, if the 'endgame' crowd are the kind who look down their noses to everyone else then it's not the sort of clique I'd like to be associated with. I know there's some genuinely good groups out there which are far more tolerant, but the cacophony of trouble makers drowns them out, sadly.

In the last 2 weeks I've helped 3 people get there first wins, and some of them I didn't even know but where instead friends of friends so I know you're talking in generalizations. This is an MMO. I've said before that you need to make friends, be a part of a community, and they can help you out. MMOs are not solo adventures. That's how those 3 players in these last two weeks got wins. They made themselves a part of a community that was then willing to help them out. If you expect magic out of the party finder then you're going to have a bad time. Each one of those parties I was in was filled with people from linkshells, FC, or friend lists. Not one went to party finder. This bit of advice has been repeated in nearly every thread like this and yet time and time again people are unwilling to put in the effort to get to know people.

Less progress for others mean more ego for some. Wouldn't want too many people clearing scob now,would you ? Too many people might make it to t13 before your little group and it wouldn't make you feel special anymore.

This kind of attitude is really uncalled for and just as bad as the people you're hating on. Hate only breeds more hate.

*edit for phone typo. Damn swype*