Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[odintius]

What?

The point isn't about "content gating" , w/e the hell that means, "unworthy" players. The point is, if you're going to make the content X way, KEEP it that way. What is the point of making the content a challenge for ANYONE if all you're going to do is make it easier?

As for unworthy it was in responds to another player that you so kindly left out it called using satire/sarcasm toward another individual, meaning using their view point by placing words they have conceived about players that are not of my own views. On the second point, If you haven't played many mmo which I <assuming> you haven't totally opinion their you would have already understood this is a common factor in most standard mmo and isn't as a big nerf as people make it out to be I.E black knighting. The hardcore players are still going to have their hard raids while the rest keep playing catch up, but elites cry dalamud if any changes happens it a common theme for hardcore end gamers in any mmo.

[VahnValbosce]

You must have a lot of friends.

How many friends will you have in game when this game becomes boring and people quit left and right because they're tired of easy content?

You assume challenging content TEARS people apart. LOL...

Challenging Content Brings people TOGETHER more than it tears people apart. That is the point of an MMO, to work together WITH people to overcome a challenge.


OK!!! I must leave this section of the forums before my head explodes from all the non-sense.

[Hyrist]

LOL... utter non-sense.

I'm wondering if you are aware of the Stawman and Slipper Slope argumentative fallacies, because you're using them. And the fact that you're generalizing individuals that disagree with you? That really does solidify the fact that you're not listening to the counter-arguments, nor are you thinking beyond yourself.

My Raiding group may be rocked to the core with the changes of Third Coil, if Third Coil enables us to aid our other FC mates. We flat out waited Second Coil down because we wanted to progress as a FC and Coil Lockouts prevented that. If that's no longer the case, we're going to want to push, HARD through SCOB and into FCOB. Echo to us is a non-matter. We get through content when we get through content.

That said, for those who don't want to be caught a year or more behind due to content gating? This is pretty big deal. I'm in staunch support of SE taking the intelligent route and having a preserved Coil, and an adjusted Coil. So that groups can play to their preferences.

It's unintelligent design to have one difficulty setting in games these days.

Challenging Content Brings people TOGETHER more than it tears people apart. That is the point of an MMO, to work together WITH people to overcome a challenge.

Strawman argument, it bleeds out players so that only the niche people who can meet the specific criteria remain, and those who think alike, naturally come together. It's called homogenizing your player base. It does not bring people together, it pushes people away and those who are left come together.

It can be something simple as having a work schedule conflict that can cause a punishingly difficult game to be impossible for a player. Basing your ideals of bringing people together on one set standard, means you are ostracizing the rest. It's simple anthropology.

[VicViperion]

How many friends will you have in game when this game becomes boring and people quit left and right because they're tired of easy content?

You assume challenging content TEARS people apart. LOL...

Challenging Content Brings people TOGETHER more than it tears people apart. That is the point of an MMO, to work together WITH people to overcome a challenge.

It surely brings people together. All those PF parties asking for fresh players fill the screen, doesn't it? No, wait, they're filling with nothing but i105+ ONLY NO MYTH MESSAGE 1 SHOT ONLY NO N00BS. It's also fairly telling that I never see those parties anywhere near filled either, it's also just 3 players sitting there for hours on end. You're being childish and unreasonable, no one is going to quit the game over any of this.

[Aethaeryn]

How many friends will you have in game when this game becomes boring and people quit left and right because they're tired of easy content?

You assume challenging content TEARS people apart. LOL...

Challenging Content Brings people TOGETHER more than it tears people apart. That is the point of an MMO, to work together WITH people to overcome a challenge.


OK!!! I must leave this section of the forums before my head explodes from all the non-sense.

Nonsense doesn't need to be hyphenated.

My coil group for one of my alts has players of all different gaming backgrounds and skill. We just formed around 2.3, and we're on t8 right now and feeling pretty good about it. There are a couple of people in the group who take a lot longer to pick up mechanics than the rest of us. If we'd kicked them early on or passed over them because of this, we would have missed out on building a couple of great friendships that have enriched my time with this game.

Punishing people because of poorly designed content is asinine. There's a reason people also "boo'd" when they found out that FCoB was designed by the same person who made Titan and SCoB.

(Moved this from my other post because you don't seem to actually pay attention to posts once they're a page back. You ignored mine from like 4 pages ago.)

People are quitting because CURRENT content is easy and new content comes in too slowly. There's not enough horizontal progression to keep the players with significantly more time and more drive to quickly plow through content. If you think more people are quitting because old content is eased up in difficulty, you are wrong.

The same things that make SCoB too easy for the hardcore crowd could be fixed in ways that make them more manageable for people who aren't necessarily super amazing at twitch mechanics or multitasking.

[AdamFyi]

You're still ignoring all of the people who haven't even attempted second coil yet because they don't have the drive or the time to spend tons of hours wiping to learn fights.

To be honest, I raid for about 5 hours per week, and I'm currently working on T9. Here's the catch; I welcome content to be eased up for people who can't spend hours on end to practice because of limited time or erratic schedules (IRL is more important, people!). Old content does not need to be nerfed to the ground, rather, eased up naturally by the introduction of better gear, and to some extent currently shown, the Echo. Coil has story gated behind it, and I think everyone should deserve the right to at least experience the cutscenes, no matter how long it takes. Sure, you may only get to see it once the content becomes obsolete, but at least it's something to look forward to.

It surely brings people together. All those PF parties asking for fresh players fill the screen, doesn't it? No, wait, they're filling with nothing but i105+ ONLY NO MYTH MESSAGE 1 SHOT ONLY NO N00BS. It's also fairly telling that I never see those parties anywhere near filled either, it's also just 3 players sitting there for hours on end. You're being childish and unreasonable, no one is going to quit the game over any of this.

That's because people took the time and effort to actually set up their own parties on the party finder. All players have equal access to the party finder and create groups according to their specification, whether it be a learning group or hunting group - it doesn't matter. All it takes is a little initiative to start up a party, and viola; you have yourself a party set up on the party finder. You have to be patient for those parties to fill though.

[ReplicaX]

It is a Big Deal actually.

The Enemy Design Team has proven otherwise with past practice in coil alone.

I'm not even taking a side in this and can see why the Dev Team is taking the middle ground again.

You yourself state:

TURN 9 is Challenging

Listening to all your "logic" has really just shown me perhaps you are over-thinking the situation and assuming too much. As I'm sure Final Coil will be challenging.

[DefendPopPunk]

I'm pretty sure most casual players aren't going to attend a fanfest, and they're far from a minority when it comes to the population of an MMO like this one. I wouldn't take the fan reaction as some type of consensus about what we think of coil nerfs. I couldn't care less about doing coil or any endgame but I would still support making it easier for those that are interested in doing it (if it's really that hard).

[VahnValbosce]

I'm wondering if you are aware of the Stawman and Slipper Slope argumentative fallacies.

They are NOT strawman arguments. THEY are factual arguements based on the TACTICS of other MMO companies. FFXIV is an MMO.

I spent 1 month and 2 weeks with a CASUAL STATIC to cear Turn 6, 7 and 8. We spent 4 hours PER WEEK, it took us 6 weeks TOTAL. That is a total of 24 TOTAL HOURS of progression to LEARN and CLEAR Turn 6, 7 and 8.

1 month and 2 weeks consists of roughly 45 days, 45 days = 1080 hours. 6 weeks of progression at 4 hours PER WEEK consists of 24 hours. 24 hours out of 1080 HOURS??? We were a CASUAL group, CASUAL players HAVING FUN and JOKING AROUND with eachother.

If you cannot clear coil within that time allotment, then 2 things:
#1. You shouldn't be subscribing to a Pay 2 Play MMO, because you obviously need more time to learn and progress in a fight, but you simply do not have the time, due to your "busy real life schedule" or whatever else it is that takes up your precious time.
#2. You are the person holding people back, and you should just accept that fact and work on your progression and get better at the game.

If you think I'm being a jerk about these comments, then what can I tell you? YOU are the jerk for wanting to ruin other peoples challenging and fun experiences by having things nerfed.

[Aethaeryn]

To be honest, I raid for about 5 hours per week, and I'm currently working on T9. Here's the catch; I welcome content to be eased up for people who can't spend hours on end to practice because of limited time or erratic schedules (IRL is more important, people!).

Yeah, I didn't mean that people who currently raid all want the casual/less dedicated/less skilled/whatever crowd to be held back. He just keeps bringing up what like two people said about PF groups failing due to one person messing up mechanics as if everyone wants things nerfed into the ground for that reason alone. The simple fact is that easing difficulty of older content is not a new concept for MMORPGs, and Yoshida said this was the plan before 2.0 release.

I don't think anyone is going to quit the game over older content being made easier for less serious players. Walling off those players and making it difficult for new players to catch up can cause a lot of problems, though. There are some games I've wanted to try, but have been dissuaded by friends currently playing because they told me catching up would require tons of time and frustration. SE ultimately wants to make money, and making it more realistic for new players to jump in and join friends is necessary if you want your game to continue growing.