Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[RadRyder]

Perhaps this idea may have been said already, but I really think all raids in this game should have multiple difficulty levels similar to primal fights (Normal, Hard, Extreme). Normal would be fairly easy, but does not drop loot. Hard would be the intended difficulty, and drop loot normally. Extreme would be much more difficult than intended, but drops better or more loot.

That way, casual players who only want to clear them for the story/achievements can do so, while the more hardcore players can get their dose of challenge. This may also inspire the casual players to improve their skills so they can clear the higher difficulties and get the awesome loot.

[Alukah]

Perhaps this idea may have been said already, but I really think all raids in this game should have multiple difficulty levels similar to primal fights (Normal, Hard, Extreme). Normal would be fairly easy, but does not drop loot. Hard would be the intended difficulty, and drop loot normally. Extreme would be much more difficult than intended, but drops better or more loot.

That way, casual players who only want to clear them for the story/achievements can do so, while the more hardcore players can get their dose of challenge. This may also inspire the casual players to improve their skills so they can clear the higher difficulties and get the awesome loot.

Tiered difficulty for raiding has been discussed a lot, people are against it because things would become less exclusive for them, lesser beings have no right to ask for an easier version even if it drops lower ilvl or no gear at all.

[Violyre]

lesser beings have no right to ask for an easier version even if it drops lower ilvl or no gear at all.

I love that line.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'm one of those people that don't often get to try T5 and up. You can tell me to watch the video as many times as you like (trust me, I'm sick of watching it.), but experience is the key. And having people vote abandon after one wipe makes it harder, because another group may position stuff differently, or be following a different video, and you have to factor that in.

The elitists are the ones that I want to kick in ANY dungeon or raid. I had a guy who died multiple times in a Titan Hard battle attacking me for my couple of deaths because I "haven't cleared T5 noob." I'm so sorry that I knew I wasn't geared for any coil at tbe time. His excuse for dying? "Doing so much damage the tank couldn't hold it." That is a bad player, I don't care what you've cleared. And those guys are the majority of the people that say "coil is supposed to be hard" in my experience. It's outdated when they do nerf it. WHY should you even care if it's nerfed at that point?

[Duelle]

Why do you want to nerf literally the ONLY DAMN content that is directed toward endgame players that is fun/challenging for us? There are so many other fights and things in this game perfectly accessible to casual people. (IE like...everything in the game besides 2nd/savage coil)

I'll play the lore card. You have a calamity that has been alluded to throughout most if not the entire main storyline and yet the explanation to said calamity is tied to a raid the self-professed "hardcore" get to see in its entirety while the filthy dirty casuals get to never see it. Not a good outlook. Doubly so if you're a legacy player, since the whole mess is tied (somewhat) to your character from 1.0.

This was why I liked the idea of adding "storymode" versions of all the coil fights that allows everyone to witness the story aspect of it while also not having to hit content with a nerf bat.

At least you're directing your ire at the right element in all of this, which is commendable after all the "lool u scrubz" from earlier in the thread. ARR should have had three difficulty setting for coil. Story, Normal, Savage.

Since they decided to not go by this approach, they went with the only alternative they have. No sense in designing and implementing a new difficulty tier (below the current one) for coil when it is relatively close to its end (2.4 being the end of coil and then the expansion coming out).

[Inflorescence]

If fights like T6 aren't considered hard enough, where Bouquet is casted as a bee is smacking you, patches are on the ground, and you have people vined (watch out, next one's going to be a flower), what would make the fight hard enough to be considered "satisfyingly difficult?"

[saeedaisspecial]

If fights like T6 aren't considered hard enough, where Bouquet is casted as a bee is smacking you, patches are on the ground, and you have people vined (watch out, next one's going to be a flower), what would make the fight hard enough to be considered "satisfyingly difficult?"

Chains should be broken before Bouquet even comes out, briars aren't really an issue because they're easy to run around.
All you have to worry about is the bee dealing damage to the person it's targeting, and even then it's only minimal autoattack damage.

Nothing you described is hard at all.

[Inflorescence]

Chains should be broken before Bouquet even comes out, briars aren't really an issue because they're easy to run around.
All you have to worry about is the bee dealing damage to the person it's targeting, and even then it's only minimal autoattack damage.

Nothing you described is hard at all.

That's completely avoiding the question of "What makes it hard, then?" For my T6 group, that's where everyone falls apart. So, there is a difficulty there. You can't say that there's not, because there they are--people dying and wiping the raid. Many people obviously find it too easy, though, so there's a disconnect between the people who are finding it difficult and people who don't.

I've never been a part of the end-game scene of any MMO that I've played before FFXIV, so I'm wondering what raids have existed in the past that had the acceptable level of difficulty between "lolzfaceroll SCoB" and "Twisters are so unfair." That is, assuming that Twisters weren't also "lolzfaceroll;" I cleared T5 after the nerf, I wouldn't know the predominant mentality of the time.

[Millen1]

The hardest part of coil is getting 7 other players to show up on time and learn it. You can PF it but most of my tries end in first wipe, someone rage quits and then a few don't want to wait for another person to fill the space, 2 hours wasted. I like the direction that they are taking coil by letting you help friends or learn with friends that have cleared it. As to the nerf on instant wipe mechs, it will be interesting to see how it is handled when it comes. They are not nerfing savage coil and from what I have seen, everyone wants savage but few have entered. Many seem to stick with normal coil every week. Did you really want that savage challenge and possibly no clear in a week? I do remember how few players would enter Sunken Temple at the start of 2.0. A party could easily spend 60 minutes on the first boss do to final sting from bees. If Sunken Temple was a mandatory dungeon at the start of the game, many would have quit there. SEs challenge is to find the right balance between seat of your pants to clear content and the average player that does not have all day to wipe in the same spot.

[Divine_Intervention]

Am I one of the only people that DON'T want a nerf , not for the reasons listed, but for this:

I enjoy second coil. It is still a challenge to me. And although I will look forward to Final Coil, I am sad about the fact that Second Coil is going to be nerfed to a point of no more challenge, and I won't have time to beat it while it's still a challenge to me. *See no static/fc comments*

[stephenjd3]

No, I do not want a nerf either, I wish they waited till 2.5 to do a nerf.