Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[SinisterIsBack]

So yea, it gets a bit more complicated than "Face away, face away from people, and huddle."

no, it really doesn't.

How can you call playing your job correctly a role in a fight? When you ask what role people have, it refers to their task within said fight. Like I said -- 3 roles. Tank OT and Kiter, those are the only 3 that have to perform any extra tasks aside than Face Away, Face Away from people and Huddle (just squeeze in). That is it...

The biggest reason why groups fail T7 is because of 2 things.

-They don't dps fast enough during the first set of adds (that is the hardest part of the whole fight) and panic.
-They don't pay attention to their debuffs

Which one do you think it is the most?

[NyneAlexander]

no, it really doesn't.

How can you call playing your job correctly a role in a fight? When you ask what role people have, it refers to their task within said fight. Like I said -- 3 roles. Tank OT and Kiter, those are the only 3 that have to perform any extra tasks aside than Face Away, Face Away from people and Huddle (just squeeze in). That is it...

Just adding in dealing with 2 fire balls on ranged dps makes your claim of "face away, face away from people, and huddle" more complicated than you claimed. I'm not sure how else to elaborate to help you see that you are over simplifying this fight.

[RiceisNice]

Ya, but hey watch for logic on these forums most people started killing late and claim "Easy". Most weren't on the cusp of progression with no guides, or defaulted to any video as soon as it came out. Without video assistance I doubt many people would have been able to do the content.

I.E. If a divebomb guide wasn't made in T9 I doubt many people would have cleared as they did.

It's only a matter of time when people start adjusting and learning to the mechanics as they see it first hand (which again, is going to require a static group to make any learning process stick).

Logic gets incredibly skewed in an online community forum; we're in an environment where people immediately call others lazy for not being able to finish atma in a month+ span (despite the RNG), people who treat story cutscenes as some sort of prestige reward to justify it being locked behind the hardest content in the game...and then telling them to go youtube it in the same post (such prestige rewards!)...etc etc...

And in the end, I feel that people really seem to be overreacting to the "nerf" that may be coming. I have very low expectations of upcoming content after seeing what we've been given the past few months (hunts and housing for example) that I wouldn't expect any more than a 20% echo being slapped on with lock out removal.

In reference to the T7 discussion;

>MT from what I've seen has the most nose-pickiest role in the entire fight...in the sense they have time to pick their noses and still perform whats needed out of them.
>OT needs to pick up the adds, manage their cooldowns and not run through the party in a way that'd interfere with other mechanics.
>Melee needs to watch their positioning for circle slash and maintain full dps. While there's no dPS check, the amount of outgoing damage from the adds justify you being able to kill the first one ASAP and maximizing your dps.
>Ranged needs to stay spread out, bonus kudos for the one assigned to kiting the renaud.
>Healers need to be on top of petrifying the renauds on top of their normal roles.

In the end, though, it's nothing out of the ordinary save for a few mechanics being slapped. You have no place in end game content if you can't play your class properly to maximize dps (looking at the melee specifically in this case). Beyond that, it's an attention span check and being on top of mechanics as they spawn when you know what's coming up (which is easy to do...since everything happens on a scripted basis.)

[Valcro]

It kind of shows who the vocal minority are to me when the forums are littered with people whining about difficulty but when a fan gathering is held the true feelings are much more obvious.

More like everybody who spends money to go to a fanfest are the ones doing coil

[Magis]

Just adding in dealing with 2 fire balls on ranged dps makes your claim of "face away, face away from people, and huddle" more complicated than you claimed. I'm not sure how else to elaborate to help you see that you are over simplifying this fight.

What? Fireballs? If everyone is standing in their proper spots, you don't even have to care about them. The second shriek is done, move back to the outer ring... TOO HARD. Some minor coordination may be needed with the other range so that you stay away, but that basically what you had to do with thorns anyway in T6.

[RiceisNice]

More like everybody who spends money to go to a fanfest are the ones doing coil

From experience, it's a terrible way to judge the community outlook (much like every other way such as the forum). A game I was playing back then had a live PvP event, and people were booing at the player who had radial AoE stun (good for support), but cheering for the player who had the ability to literally one-shot people from 100% hp in the truest sense.

Doesn't do either side any good though if you take one perspective and immediately dismiss the other side either; I'm all for nerfing coil but to an extent. I still want to be able to progress the way it is right now, and my group is still struggling to find the last slots to fill. If it's just 20% echo, it doesn't do much for the mechanics anyway, and you can turn it off so why would it matter in the long run.

[SinisterIsBack]

Just adding in dealing with 2 fire balls on ranged dps makes your claim of "face away, face away from people, and huddle" more complicated than you claimed. I'm not sure how else to elaborate to help you see that you are over simplifying this fight.

How --- Fireballs are a constant, unavoidable. All the healers have to do is heal...you know, their job? Hell don't even have to heal, just regen each (if you have a whm) and your fine.

[Coatl]

If it's just an echo buff then I wouldn't mind it too much. Echo won't save you from the one-shot mechanics. But if ease up the mechanics to just make them ignorable then that's no good.

[NyneAlexander]

What? Fireballs? If everyone is standing in their proper spots, you don't even have to care about them. The second shriek is done, move back to the outer ring... TOO HARD. Some minor coordination may be needed with the other range so that you stay away, but that basically what you had to do with thorns anyway in T6.

I didn't say they were hard mechanics. Just that there are more mechanics than "Face away, Face away from group, Huddle". Which there are. And its the sum of those mechanics that give people trouble.

I mean, the static I used to run with before my current static would single tank this fight. We never had an offtank. I'd argue that it made the fight more complicated in that we actually had to deal with things like the tank constantly moving melusine around the room, and subsequently dealing with her cleave when "normal" parties wouldn't have to deal with that mechanic. Or the few times we went in with 3+ ranged dps instead of two.

My point is this: if you go into this fight with anything other than the 2 tank, 2 healer, 2 melee, 2 ranged setup, you are going to have a different user experience with the mechanics than you would if you went in with what you would need to only "face away, face away from the group, huddle" and win the fight. That in and of itself makes this fight more complicated than Lilu initially claimed, which is all I'm trying to point out.

How --- Fireballs are a constant, unavoidable. All the healers have to do is heal...you know, their job? Hell don't even have to heal, just regen each (if you have a whm) and your fine.

Because you can't just root yourself there and expect your healer to deal with the damage you take. If your kiter happens to be kiting near you, and you don't anticipate when the fireball is coming, you and they will eat double damage, and possibly die. If you have more than 2 RDPS, you can't know who is going to get fire balls, and you have to plan accordingly. If this happens during the 2nd set of adds, regen might not (probably won't) be enough.

MAKE NO MISTAKE: I'm not saying that this is hard but this, and many other nuanced mechanics fall outside the realm of "face away, face away from group, huddle"

[Rhysati]

BS mechanics that punish you for even a tiny .1 second of lag is not the same as being difficult.

Raids do not need ludicrous mechanics that one-hit people and wipe groups to be hard. Anyone that thinks this is so has not raided in the old EQ or WoW days. THOSE were fun, challenging, and overall difficult raids. The little 8-man content here that makes up for actual difficulty by putting in one-hitting mechanics that require a syncronized dance routine are a joke.

When I first heard they were giving us the Crystal Tower stuff and that it would be 24-man, I got so excited...but they let me down by making it baby-simple to do.