Titan Extreme is NOT Fun

[Hitome]

You make valid points, to be sure. But Yes, if a dps dies and party is close or around bare minimum, its a wipe. Plain and simple. If your busting gear i90 and rocking 7k pally and 5k dps that parse 400+, you bet the fight isn't over. A good fight doesn't mean being 23 item levels higher than content to clear it makes it fun. Yes, the fight requires very minimal mechanics to succeed, but still doesn't qualify it as content deemed hard and rewarding. More of Oh finally cleared it, never looking at it again.

Then talk about ilevel requirements in general and not just for this specific fight. Notice in the thread I posted in? Several of the fights could use huge adjustments to be playable in DF. I'm well aware of this.

The game has been out for a while now. Many people are approaching i90 with mythology alone. If you acknowledge that SE made a blunder in setting the ilevel too low for most of the new (and old) DF content, then you obviously have a notion about where the ilevel should be set at to do the fight smoothly. To me, the extremes are probably up there at i78-i85. Can be done with less? Sure. Do I believe the development team equipped iwhatever gear and did these fights with the bare minimum? Yes. Are they also the people who developed the fight? Yes so they probably should have bumped up the ilevel by 10 levels or so after determining their own bare minimum.

What I'm saying is that many of the primal fights have never been DF friendly (pre 2.1/post 2.1) and continue to still not be. Instead of saying the fight is BS, focus more on the ilevel requirement for the normal DF player.

However, your first post in this thread as the OP was about instant kill mechanics. This simply isn't true. Ever been stun locked by a dreadknight who dies as he goes to stun another player? It disabled you for the rest of the Twintania encounter unless you are lucky enough to die. It removes you from the battlefield for all intents and purposes. In some cases, casting a raise during Twin can't be done due to positioning and mana constraints. If a DPS dies during twister phase, you have a very high probability of wiping due to dreadknights which are instant kill themselves. Do you find Twin fun, though? I personally do.

Now, how about the other extremes? I don't find Garuda fun at all due to aggro mechanics of the spiny plume. It causes more wipes than it should. I also do not like the nature of double whicked. Chances of a DF group understanding this fight in 60 minutes are very low. Most people will tell you, though, that Garuda is an easy fight and even 'fun'. Same with Ifrit. But both of them also use a set rotation that requires precise execution or you will wipe. I feel like Titan is getting the brunt of your attacks because his rotation appears faster than the other two. Why can't you view them as fights that stress different things? Garuda stresses tank communication the most. Titan stresses raid awareness the most. Ifrit stresses healer communication the most.

You find raid awareness difficult because it requires reliance on other members. Isn't this the problem with any DF fight, though? You're all strangers. No one knows each other. You need to all be aware and on the same page or it won't work: not exclusive to Titan Ex at all.

You are looking for a solution to a specific problem when there is a much larger one presented that is not being addressed.

Find me the options in titan, plzthx.

Oh, another edit: I said % cuz I don't have actual numbers, but it's at least two people, which makes it a percentage. I was not even misleading about anything, nor did I use any actual (inherently woulda been wrong) numbers. Don't be a D-bag; try to make valid points instead of trying to use non-logical arguments.

1) Read posts thoroughly when the information is readily available to you.

Anyone who has done this fight knows there is strategy. Do you let the healer or DPS go in or out for double gaols? Do you break the healer or DPS out first? Which method do you use to dodge the cross bombs? How do you utilize LB? How do you utilize tank CDs like hallowed and holmgang? How do you decide which bomb to kill on the gigantic bomb + plume + geocrush? How many people can die before you call it a wipe? Do you take 2 healers or 1 healer and 5 DPS? What method do you use to avoid weights? How do you optimize your strategy to help people with specific job requirements succeed (casters, melee DPS)? How many stacks do you let the tank take until you swap? Can your DPS communicate so that you do not push Titan into another phase during an inopportune time like after a stomp or upheaval?

It's like I'm talking to people who have no idea what they're talking about due to lack of experience. If a DPS dies before the heart, you raise them. 2 of our Titan kills have been with a DPS who was dead all throughout the heart/post heart phase due to a landslide. One of our kills was done with FIVE people dying and being brought back with raise. It's almost like the people in this thread should read the WHM swiftcast thread.

2) I'll try to refrain from using 'non-logical' arguments if you will refrain from using illogical arguments.

[Peptaru]

More blablah

Your non-logical argument was when you attacked my numbers, unsuccessfully. I'll give you credit for "where does the healer go" and other than that everything you listed is stack > move > stack > move.

[Hitome]

Non-logical

You provided numbers? When was this?

So LB is stack > move > stack > move. Stacking is a strategy, you know? Moving to specific locations is also one. Choosing party composition alters your strategy as well.

I see you're busy grasping at straws, though. I'll leave you and your 'non-logical' arguments to others who are more bored than I am at the moment.

I would also like to know what you mean when you say "dodging is a skill in and of itself". What "skill" exactly? Because as I understand it, dodging means: 1) percieve the threat 2) moving to avoid it. Aside from reaction time, what "skill" does it require?

What is 'skill'?

skill [skil]
noun
1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3. a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
4. Obsolete . understanding; discernment.

Seems to be linked to decision making. Do you continue to cast a spell knowing something is coming up that you need to dodge or do you cancel the cast and prepare to dodge? Decision made, skill associated with dodging. Ever notice that certain members in your group die more often than others? If dodging were not a skill, they would either all die or all live. People seem to think dodging is not a skill because it is more heavily influenced by other factors. Does that suddenly make it not a skill, though? No.

Decision making is a huge part of many classes/jobs in this game. Your ability to make informed decisions is what I would consider skill. Your ability to move out of something you know is coming is, therefore, a skill.

[Peptaru]

You provided numbers? When was this?

I said % and said I did NOT USE NUMBERS. And you talk about my made up statistics.... I didn't use any; FFS. Please tell me you're trollin with that cuz if so... 7/10.

[Billie21]

What is 'skill'?

skill [skil]
noun
1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3. a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
4. Obsolete . understanding; discernment.

Seems to be linked to decision making. Do you continue to cast a spell knowing something is coming up that you need to dodge or do you cancel the cast and prepare to dodge? Decision made, skill associated with dodging. Ever notice that certain members in your group die more often than others? If dodging were not a skill, they would either all die or all live. People seem to think dodging is not a skill because it is more heavily influenced by other factors. Does that suddenly make it not a skill, though? No.

Decision making is a huge part of many classes/jobs in this game. Your ability to make informed decisions is what I would consider skill. Your ability to move out of something you know is coming is, therefore, a skill.

Kettle seemed to oppose decision making to dexterity, as well as Ttan EX to other fights. Therefore, I assumed the meant something other than decision making. But thank you for trying.
She also said that you did not need to know the fight by heart to win it which would imply that you don't need to know what is coming before it actually happens.



PS: You know, it's a shame that most of your messages on this thread consist in saying you have a bigger one/demeaning people/being derisive and hypocritical, because every so often you do make some interesting and constructive posts.

[Hitome]

Kettle seemed to oppose decision making to dexterity, as well as Ttan EX to other fights. Therefore, I assumed the meant something other than decision making. But thank you for trying.
She also said that you did not need to know the fight by heart to win it which would imply that you don't need to know what is coming before it actually happens.

He/she is actually right. When I go to DF Titan HM, I don't think many players have any idea what they're doing. Some will drop plumes right on me and I have to move the moment they do when I'm not expecting them at all. There is always an escape route for plumes. Can you spot it in time and move/sprint to it? How about using class moves to get out of situations like that? Things like aetherial manipulation, when used right, can help you avoid many situations but require very fast reflexes. Have you ever seen a MNK shoulder tackle back onto the arena after he was clearly landslided off it? I have. Again, fast reflexes/thinking differentiate him from other MNKs. Most people cannot do this. I believe this is what he/she was referring to.

It's also a shame that you seem to harp on server delay so much. Most people are aware it exists and work with it. There is nothing wrong with the game: just something wrong with your expectations about how the servers should function.

I'm a pretty level-headed player. If people wish to use extremes in their retorts as hyperbole, I don't see why I shouldn't go the other direction and act like the elitist !@#$ they view me as anyways. Preconceived notions, misjudging a player based on a handful of posts, and all that other nonsense you know?

What was that you were saying about grasping? I'm going to bed, but ty for the fun. Your posts make me chuckle. I've said it in other posts (in various threads), I'll say it in this one. When you start attacking semantics, you're out of points to make. So it's a good a time as any for sleep.

I guess that's a good way to bow out of an argument when you have no other points. :X

Ya, at least ppl are producing good stuff. Not telling ppl to go play other games and claiming their 1337 farming content runs.

DAMNIT IT JINXED IT

Yeah...I'd hate for people to cite their farming experience in other 1337 content that is irrelevant to this discussion.

I clear twintania weekly, and even twisters aren't as punishing as landslide.

Oh darn look at that. First post, too.

[Billie21]

He/she is actually right. When I go to DF Titan HM, I don't think many players have any idea what they're doing. Some will drop plumes right on me and I have to move the moment they do when I'm not expecting them at all. There is always an escape route for plumes. Can you spot it in time and move/sprint to it? How about using class moves to get out of situations like that? Things like aetherial manipulation, when used right, can help you avoid many situations but require very fast reflexes. Have you ever seen a MNK shoulder tackle back onto the arena after he was clearly landslided off it? I have. Again, fast reflexes/thinking differentiate him from other MNKs. Most people cannot do this. I believe this is what he/she was referring to.

It's also a shame that you seem to harp on server delay so much. Most people are aware it exists and work with it. There is nothing wrong with the game: just something wrong with your expectations about how the servers should function.

I'm a pretty level-headed player. If people wish to use extremes in their retorts as hyperbole, I don't see why I shouldn't go the other direction and act like the elitist !@#$ they view me as anyways. Preconceived notions, misjudging a player based on a handful of posts, and all that other nonsense you know?

Thanks, this does make sense.


I am "harping" about delay, as you say it, because Kettle and you (as well as others) all this require fast reaction/decision making. Which cannot happen when delay comes into play, since you only get the information afterwards (when it's too late to take action). Thus completely ruining the point of the exercise (only way to overcome the trial is to learn it by heart, relying on your memory rather than reflexes and spit second decision making).

My expectations of how the server/game should function is simply that it should function at all.
For those mechanics to be enjoyable, they need to function properly (i.e: you get the information in time to react, and the server gets the info of your reaction and doesn't cancel it because his decision was already made before it happened).
If a server can not function in such a way for these mechanics to work, then the game should have different mechanics, that can work with the state of the server/network/the game's netcode/etc...


My point was that the design choices for this fight are actually "punishing", rather than "difficult" (because of the delay problem).
Again, the video that was linked (about the whole "punishing" vs "difficult") is quite eloquent (which is why it has been linked).


PS: I could give you reasons why you should not go the other direction and act like the elitist !@#$ they view you as, one of which would be to avoid ruining a potentially interesting discussion by overflowing it with petty arguments. Another would be to avoid discrediting your own arguments -but I gues that's your personal choice to make).