Titan Extreme is NOT Fun

[Hitome]

Mad and blaming own inadequacies on other things.

I'm actually done with the fight. Several times now.

Your turn.

[ZeroRains]

Mad and blaming own inadequacies on other things.

lol your right, being inadequate to voice my concern over content that I've already completed and can fairly review to help benefit future content. To me, it seems your the only one who's upset the majority doesn't agree. Well, back on topic now.

[Hitome]

lol your right, being inadequate to voice my concern over content that I've already completed and can fairly review to help benefit future content. To me, it seems your the only one who's upset the majority doesn't agree. Well, back on topic now.

The majority in this thread probably have no idea what goes on during the heart phase because they are busy DFing it. Your only valid point was that ilevel was too low. Interesting...I just spent 30 minutes the other day reviewing ilevel requirements for each fight here.

Why would I be mad about the fight? I like the fact that the majority cannot complete it just yet. It means there is still something to do with the remaining approximate 2 months and 2 weeks till 2.2. I've actually told you I enjoy this fight quite a bit several times throughout this thread.

For someone who has completed the fight, your review is pretty misinformed. Do you really think it is game over if a DPS dies pre-heart? Or even post-heart? lol

Citing statistics without citing actual numbers. Whining.

What % would that be?

I wonder why I don't see many people whining about Twintania. Surely she has a bunch of BS in there as well if you find Titan contains BS.

The extremes people will go to to defend their inadequacies in quite alarming...

[ZeroRains]

The majority in this thread probably have no idea what goes on during the heart phase because they are busy DFing it. Your only valid point was that ilevel was too low. Interesting...I just spent 30 minutes the other day reviewing ilevel requirements for each fight here.

Why would I be mad about the fight? I like the fact that the majority cannot complete it just yet. It means there is still something to do with the remaining approximate 2 months and 2 weeks till 2.2. I've actually told you I enjoy this fight quite a bit several times throughout this thread.

For someone who has completed the fight, your review is pretty misinformed. Do you really think it is game over if a DPS dies pre-heart? Or even post-heart? lol

You make valid points, to be sure. Don't think I'm completely saying your wrong, because they do have merit. But Yes, if a dps dies and party is close or around bare minimum, its a wipe. Plain and simple. If your busting gear i90 and rocking 7k pally and 5k dps that parse 400+, you bet the fight isn't over. A good fight doesn't mean being 23 item levels higher than content to clear it makes it fun. Yes, the fight requires very minimal mechanics to succeed, but still doesn't qualify it as content deemed hard and rewarding. More of Oh finally cleared it, never looking at it again.

[koikitty]

Gear is only a small portion of ability to complete a fight, which includes skill and experience. What I find most disturbing is people flat out denying anyone new to do the Extremes, well how will they learn or do better later in attempts if you deny them completly any participation in the fight due to gear/actual run attempts. Gear is a core/foundation aspect to entering the fight, the rest is skill and somewhat connection.

You cant do shit about Ping, its in every game. tho I am slow sometimes, I listen to the casting sound effects or abilities that Titan do, to predict a movement before it drops down on my screen.

But the fight I hear is absolutely fun and possible with practice. I have yet to do it because I am in no rush.

As for Parsers , they are never 100% correct and have many faults, many Dev's and GM's dont give any credit to there numbers do to the ability to be off. It is a tool simply to guess what your doing. Your parse would be much more accurate for you, than others.

[Kettle]

All games are 'artificially' difficult. Dodging is a skill in and of itself. If you can't dodge, you don't have the skill for this particular encounter. Sure, memorising the pattern rotation will help, but it isn't necessary. I still don't remember the rotations, even from HM, because it's not something I need to do. You just need to know how to deal with each of those patterns or events.

If you are expecting a stellar turn out in a Duty Finder with no implicit demands on previous experience or performance, then you'll likely be disappointed. You have three choices to succeed:

1) Take a group who you know can all do the fight
2) Take a group with players who can carry those that aren't great at the fight
3) Take a group with players prepared to put the time in together to learn

It sounds as if your base reference is number 3 and this is always going to be the most difficult option because it's ALWAYS the situation that DF is in and ALWAYS the situation DF doesn't want to be in. But it's ultimately the player's choice. Although it's good the option is available, I don't think the DF is how Titan Ex (or even HM) is primarily intended to be completed.

Groups in i80/i90 are not struggling to complete this fight. Groups with multiple players still unable to dodge the abilities and deal with adds and tank switches are struggling to complete this fight. There's a difference. Yes, running Titan Ex in shitty gear is probably a bad idea. Whoop dee doo. But I promise you that the reason players fail is, for the most part, not because of gear.

You keep insisting the only way to have valid difficult content is by making it based on decision making. You like one type of content, we get that. But not everyone consistently likes the same thing. I personally like variation and that my skills are tested in different ways. Decision making is certainly one of those, but being able to perform a dexterous role while under intense pressure is another.

[Billie21]

All games are 'artificially' difficult. Dodging is a skill in and of itself. If you can't dodge, you don't have the skill for this particular encounter. Sure, memorising the pattern rotation will help, but it isn't necessary. I still don't remember the rotations, even from HM, because it's not something I need to do. You just need to know how to deal with each of those patterns or events.

If you are expecting a stellar turn out in a Duty Finder with no implicit demands on previous experience or performance, then you'll likely be disappointed. You have three choices to succeed:

1) Take a group who you know can all do the fight
2) Take a group with players who can carry those that aren't great at the fight
3) Take a group with players prepared to put the time in together to learn

It sounds as if your base reference is number 3 and this is always going to be the most difficult option. But it's ultimately the player's choice. Although it's good the option is available, I don't think the DF is how Titan Ex (or even HM) is primarily intended to be completed.

Groups in i80/i90 are not struggling to complete this fight. Groups with multiple players still unable to dodge the abilities and deal with adds and tank switches are struggling to complete this fight. There's a difference. Yes, running Titan Ex in shitty gear is probably a bad idea. Whoop dee doo. But I promise you that the reason you are failing is not because of gear.

You keep insisting the only way to have valid difficult content is by making it based on decision making. You like one type of content, we get that. But not everyone consistently likes the same thing. I personally like variation and that my skills are tested in different ways. Decision making is certainly one of those, but being able to perform a dexterous role while under intense pressure is another.

This is interesting. I'd like to clear a few things to make sure I understand what you mean, if you don't mind.

What you call "dexterous role" and aparently oppose to "decision making", I understand it as basically "reflex action" (where the rapidity of your reflex is tested rather than what you are doing. Please do correct me if I misunderstood.

I would also like to know what you mean when you say "dodging is a skill in and of itself". What "skill" exactly? Because as I understand it, dodging means: 1) percieve the threat 2) moving to avoid it. Aside from reaction time, what "skill" does it require?

I do agree with you about the DF part: it would seem logical that the most difficult battles in the game were made for team effort and therefore be hard to PUG.

[Kettle]

I understand it as basically "reflex action" (where the rapidity of your reflex is tested rather than what you are doing. Please do correct me if I misunderstood.

I don't think they necessarily oppose and actually both appear in a fight like Titan. I was just trying to rationalise the difference the OP was making in comparing Twin to Titan. If I was to express my own view of the differences, it'd probably be with Twin being a traditional raid boss and Titan being a fun arcade game. What the OP is essentially saying though is 'Please only make the type of content I like', which in some respects is understandable, but in others, bollocks.

There are certainly some reflexes required on titan HM /Ex, but those reflexes often require a decision to be made at the same time. Has a Landslide been placed down unusually? Which direction have line bombs been placed? Is there anything else going on I should be aware of (healer positioning / Gaols coming?). Being able to make those decisions, react and survive is something some find harder to do (clearly - else we would not be having this discussion). Players who react and move robotically and can't react to change are those that most often die. Being able to make decisions, survive, adapt where necessary and perform a role optimally* is something some people find even more difficult to do. It requires a certain amount of dexterity, situational awareness and, as you say, reflexes. I'd certainly consider that a skill. People aren't finding this fight difficult because it is 'unfair'.

*and this is almost a pre-requisite for extreme primals, which is where I expect the problem lies.

[Peptaru]

Question

Answer: Twintania has things that have been discussed by others.... >>>>Options<<<<

How many do we want to stack for fireball, do we want to feed a fireball and DS (edited, wrote divebomb cuz i was ranting.) to every other conflag? Are we gonna run around individually to neurolinks when we get the orb, or gonna tank her on top of one and have the OT eat them? If he gets liquid hell, do we move Twin or just have people run to the links til the ground under her is clear again? Melee DPS on the main snake or help with the first two babies? On the hill or center-to-side to dodge divebomb? And there are more... but that should be sufficient.

Find me the options in titan, plzthx.

Stack > move > re-stack > re-move > re-stack > re-move.

Oh, another edit: I said % cuz I don't have actual numbers, but it's at least two people, which makes it a percentage. I was not even misleading about anything, nor did I use any actual (inherently woulda been wrong) numbers. Don't be a D-bag; try to make valid points instead of trying to use non-logical arguments.

[Hitome]

You make valid points, to be sure. But Yes, if a dps dies and party is close or around bare minimum, its a wipe. Plain and simple. If your busting gear i90 and rocking 7k pally and 5k dps that parse 400+, you bet the fight isn't over. A good fight doesn't mean being 23 item levels higher than content to clear it makes it fun. Yes, the fight requires very minimal mechanics to succeed, but still doesn't qualify it as content deemed hard and rewarding. More of Oh finally cleared it, never looking at it again.

Then talk about ilevel requirements in general and not just for this specific fight. Notice in the thread I posted in? Several of the fights could use huge adjustments to be playable in DF. I'm well aware of this.

The game has been out for a while now. Many people are approaching i90 with mythology alone. If you acknowledge that SE made a blunder in setting the ilevel too low for most of the new (and old) DF content, then you obviously have a notion about where the ilevel should be set at to do the fight smoothly. To me, the extremes are probably up there at i78-i85. Can be done with less? Sure. Do I believe the development team equipped iwhatever gear and did these fights with the bare minimum? Yes. Are they also the people who developed the fight? Yes so they probably should have bumped up the ilevel by 10 levels or so after determining their own bare minimum.

What I'm saying is that many of the primal fights have never been DF friendly (pre 2.1/post 2.1) and continue to still not be. Instead of saying the fight is BS, focus more on the ilevel requirement for the normal DF player.

However, your first post in this thread as the OP was about instant kill mechanics. This simply isn't true. Ever been stun locked by a dreadknight who dies as he goes to stun another player? It disabled you for the rest of the Twintania encounter unless you are lucky enough to die. It removes you from the battlefield for all intents and purposes. In some cases, casting a raise during Twin can't be done due to positioning and mana constraints. If a DPS dies during twister phase, you have a very high probability of wiping due to dreadknights which are instant kill themselves. Do you find Twin fun, though? I personally do.

Now, how about the other extremes? I don't find Garuda fun at all due to aggro mechanics of the spiny plume. It causes more wipes than it should. I also do not like the nature of double whicked. Chances of a DF group understanding this fight in 60 minutes are very low. Most people will tell you, though, that Garuda is an easy fight and even 'fun'. Same with Ifrit. But both of them also use a set rotation that requires precise execution or you will wipe. I feel like Titan is getting the brunt of your attacks because his rotation appears faster than the other two. Why can't you view them as fights that stress different things? Garuda stresses tank communication the most. Titan stresses raid awareness the most. Ifrit stresses healer communication the most.

You find raid awareness difficult because it requires reliance on other members. Isn't this the problem with any DF fight, though? You're all strangers. No one knows each other. You need to all be aware and on the same page or it won't work: not exclusive to Titan Ex at all.

You are looking for a solution to a specific problem when there is a much larger one presented that is not being addressed.

Find me the options in titan, plzthx.

Oh, another edit: I said % cuz I don't have actual numbers, but it's at least two people, which makes it a percentage. I was not even misleading about anything, nor did I use any actual (inherently woulda been wrong) numbers. Don't be a D-bag; try to make valid points instead of trying to use non-logical arguments.

1) Read posts thoroughly when the information is readily available to you.

Anyone who has done this fight knows there is strategy. Do you let the healer or DPS go in or out for double gaols? Do you break the healer or DPS out first? Which method do you use to dodge the cross bombs? How do you utilize LB? How do you utilize tank CDs like hallowed and holmgang? How do you decide which bomb to kill on the gigantic bomb + plume + geocrush? How many people can die before you call it a wipe? Do you take 2 healers or 1 healer and 5 DPS? What method do you use to avoid weights? How do you optimize your strategy to help people with specific job requirements succeed (casters, melee DPS)? How many stacks do you let the tank take until you swap? Can your DPS communicate so that you do not push Titan into another phase during an inopportune time like after a stomp or upheaval?

It's like I'm talking to people who have no idea what they're talking about due to lack of experience. If a DPS dies before the heart, you raise them. 2 of our Titan kills have been with a DPS who was dead all throughout the heart/post heart phase due to a landslide. One of our kills was done with FIVE people dying and being brought back with raise. It's almost like the people in this thread should read the WHM swiftcast thread.

2) I'll try to refrain from using 'non-logical' arguments if you will refrain from using illogical arguments.