Re-rolling from Warrior, thoughts?

[Sylve]

Again, you are completely ignoring the PLD's damage reduction when convenient.

If the second 3k/2400 blow lands on both tanks before a heal of any kind completes, both are still standing.

Edit: Wait. No thats wrong. Neither of them are standing. As per your example, the WAR has 2625 HP. It takes a 3k hit and dies. The PLD has 2100 HP, takes a 2400 hit and dies.

You are correct. My mistake.
However, the Warrior in this situation of no external healing has Inner Beast, the Paladin has no such skill. There is also Storms Path. Again, the Paladin has no skill to get him into a safe zone that doesn't come with a long cool-down.
If you bring then, the cool-downs into play, both tanks are still standing.
Which just proves what I've been saying the whole time, the Warrior is not inferior, it is different. Both tanks are capable using their personal skill sets, survive the same damage.

To break it down further,
A Paladin will take less damage in spikes, There will be periods where he will get hit hard, and periods during Cool-downs that he will take minimal damage.
A Warrior takes fairly consistent damage, but recovers HP faster than the Paladin does.

[Ruminate]

You are correct. My mistake.
However, the Warrior in this situation of no external healing has Inner Beast, the Paladin has no such skill. There is also Storms Path. Again, the Paladin has no skill to get him into a safe zone that doesn't come with a long cool-down.
If you bring then, the cool-downs into play, both tanks are still standing.
Which just proves what I've been saying the whole time, the Warrior is not inferior, it is different. Both tanks are capable using their personal skill sets, survive the same damage.

To break it down further,
A Paladin will take less damage in spikes, There will be periods where he will get hit hard, and periods during Cool-downs that he will take minimal damage.
A Warrior takes fairly consistent damage, but recovers HP faster than the Paladin does.

I think you're misinformed about Inner Beast and Storm's Path.

Inner Beast cannot be used unless you have 5 stacks of Wrath. You can use infuriate to instantly gain 5 stacks, but infuriate is on a 60s cooldown. To make the heals strong, you also need Berserk, which is on a 90s cooldown. Basically, Inner Beast is a cooldown.

Storm's Path healing requires a combo, so you can only heal yourself with it every 7.5 seconds. The heal, unfortunately, is less than a PLD casting Cure on themselves. The kicker is that you can cast Cure every 2.5s. And the final nail in the coffin is that Storm's Path costs 90 TP.... the combo is impossible to use continuously even in moderately timed boss fights.

[Appleh4x]

I think you're misinformed about Inner Beast and Storm's Path...

Actually, without Berserk I usually heal about 1200 from Inner Beast from just my normal rotation buffs. With Berserk on, Maim buff, and the debuff from Storm's Eye on the enemy (which also builds stacks) I heal myself for around 2k HP (sometimes more.) In a tough spot I'll be blowing off 1-2 Inner Beasts per minute which can be anywhere from 1000 extra HP I healed to upwards of 4k HP in a minute, which I like to think helps the healer tremendously, all while keeping my stacks refreshed for his heals to get the buff. Not to mention Convalescence is a cross skill that works wonders on WAR (even without it being enhanced since Wrath increases heal % already, and scholar heals on a WAR are way more effective because the 25% bonus HP.)

[Ruminate]

Actually, without Berserk I usually heal about 1200 from Inner Beast from just my normal rotation buffs. With Berserk on, Maim buff, and the debuff from Storm's Eye on the enemy (which also builds stacks) I heal myself for around 2k HP (sometimes more.) In a tough spot I'll be blowing off 1-2 Inner Beasts per minute which can be anywhere from 1000 extra HP I healed to upwards of 4k HP in a minute, which I like to think helps the healer tremendously, all while keeping my stacks refreshed for his heals to get the buff. Not to mention Convalescence is a cross skill that works wonders on WAR (even without it being enhanced since Wrath increases heal % already, and scholar heals on a WAR are way more effective because the 25% bonus HP.)

True or false: Inner Beast has no cooldown
Sylve believes Inner Beast has no cooldown.

As for Convalesence.... if you're implying that Convalescence helps WAR more because WAR has self-heals, thats wrong. Convalescence has no effect on WAR self-heals.

As for Scholar heals... that was already touched upon earlier in the thread.

[Azostar]

True or false: Inner Beast has no cooldown
Sylve believes Inner Beast has no cooldown.

As for Convalesence.... if you're implying that Convalescence helps WAR more because WAR has self-heals, thats wrong. Convalescence has no effect on WAR self-heals.

As for Scholar heals... that was already touched upon earlier in the thread.

Inner beast does not have a cooldown, but it requires stacks of wrath which are only granted upon using a combo ability, so for every 7.5 seconds you will generate 2 stacks of wrath. You also need 5 stacks to cast inner beast.

[Appleh4x]

True or false: Inner Beast has no cooldown
Sylve believes Inner Beast has no cooldown.

As for Convalesence.... if you're implying that Convalescence helps WAR more because WAR has self-heals, thats wrong. Convalescence has no effect on WAR self-heals.

As for Scholar heals... that was already touched upon earlier in the thread.

I'm implying that it (Convalescence) helps more because WARs already get healed for more from Wrath stacks and the higher HP pools, so stacking on that goes further than with PLD. I'm not talking self heals; all outside heals. Inner Beast technically has no cooldown, and I've used it twice in a row on more than one occasion where the healer was either out of mp, dead from stupidity or a mistake, or just paralyzed.

[Ruminate]

I'm implying that it (Convalescence) helps more because WARs already get healed for more from Wrath stacks and the higher HP pools, so stacking on that goes further than with PLD. I'm not talking self heals; all outside heals. Inner Beast technically has no cooldown, and I've used it twice in a row on more than one occasion where the healer was either out of mp, dead from stupidity or a mistake, or just paralyzed.

20% damage reduction + 20% more healing gives better healing efficiency than 20% more healing + 15% more healing.
....and thats ignoring the fact that the PLD's version is actually 10% stronger.

If you cannot use it once every GCD, then it technically does have a cooldown. The cooldown is variable, but it still has a cooldown.
And using it twice in a row sounds great, except the PLD's cooldowns last longer than 2 GCDs.

[Appleh4x]

20% damage reduction + 20% more healing gives better healing efficiency than 20% more healing + 15% more healing.
....and thats ignoring the fact that the PLD's version is actually 10% stronger.

If you cannot use it once every GCD, then it technically does have a cooldown. The cooldown is variable, but it still has a cooldown.
And using it twice in a row sounds great, except the PLD's cooldowns last longer than 2 GCDs.

You say it like PLD has static 20% more damage resist which isn't true at all. WAR also has damage mit abilities, that albeit aren't AS good, but they fill in that gap between 20%. Parry rates and amount of damage negated from parry are also much higher with WAR because my strength and VIT are both very, very high. PLD STR is kind of useless and they basically have wasted points in Piety. All this + the huge amounts healed from inner beast all add up to damage mitigation equaling out between the two, or even being in WAR's favor with scholars and stoneskin happy WHM.

[Furious]

I'm implying that it (Convalescence) helps more because WARs already get healed for more from Wrath stacks and the higher HP pools, so stacking on that goes further than with PLD. I'm not talking self heals; all outside heals. Inner Beast technically has no cooldown, and I've used it twice in a row on more than one occasion where the healer was either out of mp, dead from stupidity or a mistake, or just paralyzed.

And PLDs being healed get more effective health per point of heal because they have more passive defense, meaning that the gain from convalescence is equally multiplicative. In fact, I'm not even sure that the healing bonus from convalescence IS multiplicative with warrior healing received, while it definitely is with pld defenses. Also, since it is a paladin ability after all, and paladins get improved convalescence, we get 30% healing from it where warriors get 20%.

Folks need to remember that CoB is not a very good measurement of class performance as there is an entire raid-tier missing from the game. CoB is not balanced for characters wearing ilvl 70 gear. Maybe once people start getting full sets of AF2 we can make a better assessment.

This is irrelevant; what people are supposed to be doing has no bearing on what people CAN do. When you are pushing hard content, you don't compare classes as they "should" be when the content is less hard. PLD tanks are better when content is hard; they take less damge and more effective healing, and have better cooldowns. The only, ONLY circumstance where you WANT to take a warrior over a pld right now is if damage, and more specifically aoe damage, is the factor in winning the fight. Yes, it can be done with warrior to a point; that is not the discussion at hand. In terms of competitive play, the balance point that matters is what people can do, not what they should be doing.