Re-rolling from Warrior, thoughts?

[Sylve]

But you can't just dismissed that a Paladin have all this ability to his access. A good Tank know when to use his ability and when not to burn all of it in one shot. You can't just take 2 class to compare them without any of their ability to migrate damage as a Tank. The ability are there for a Paladin and not on a Warrior for a reason. It's not like once the Paladin use those ability it will be gone forever, it will just be on a cool down. The Paladin will always have access to it when the Warrior does not making the Paladin overall easier to heal and taking less damage overall. This is especially true with long Boss fight. For long Boss fight, Paladin will shine over a Warrior.

I have play 2 class Paladin and Warrior to 50, and I find Paladin Tank better for single boss fight and for long Boss battle then a Warrior.

Except ... I can. And absolutely should, since the Paladin community does exactly the same thing to Warriors in order to call them inferior. With 90 - 180 second recast timers on those survivability cool-downs, you cannot guarantee 100% blanket coverage. Therefore, we must calculate for a 'worst case scenario' in which both Tanks have used their entire repertoire of cool-downs and are in limbo relying base survival values.

[Ruminate]

You are correct. My mistake.
However, the Warrior in this situation of no external healing has Inner Beast, the Paladin has no such skill. There is also Storms Path. Again, the Paladin has no skill to get him into a safe zone that doesn't come with a long cool-down.
If you bring then, the cool-downs into play, both tanks are still standing.
Which just proves what I've been saying the whole time, the Warrior is not inferior, it is different. Both tanks are capable using their personal skill sets, survive the same damage.

To break it down further,
A Paladin will take less damage in spikes, There will be periods where he will get hit hard, and periods during Cool-downs that he will take minimal damage.
A Warrior takes fairly consistent damage, but recovers HP faster than the Paladin does.

I think you're misinformed about Inner Beast and Storm's Path.

Inner Beast cannot be used unless you have 5 stacks of Wrath. You can use infuriate to instantly gain 5 stacks, but infuriate is on a 60s cooldown. To make the heals strong, you also need Berserk, which is on a 90s cooldown. Basically, Inner Beast is a cooldown.

Storm's Path healing requires a combo, so you can only heal yourself with it every 7.5 seconds. The heal, unfortunately, is less than a PLD casting Cure on themselves. The kicker is that you can cast Cure every 2.5s. And the final nail in the coffin is that Storm's Path costs 90 TP.... the combo is impossible to use continuously even in moderately timed boss fights.

[Fenwick]

As a healer, it is quite a bit easier to heal a PLD in the BC. However, it is by no means impossible to heal a Warrior (we've done the first two turns with one), it's just really scary considering the bosses are hitting said Warrior for nearly full damage often within a fairly short period of time. If your Warrior and healers are competent though, it can be done.

[Appleh4x]

I think you're misinformed about Inner Beast and Storm's Path...

Actually, without Berserk I usually heal about 1200 from Inner Beast from just my normal rotation buffs. With Berserk on, Maim buff, and the debuff from Storm's Eye on the enemy (which also builds stacks) I heal myself for around 2k HP (sometimes more.) In a tough spot I'll be blowing off 1-2 Inner Beasts per minute which can be anywhere from 1000 extra HP I healed to upwards of 4k HP in a minute, which I like to think helps the healer tremendously, all while keeping my stacks refreshed for his heals to get the buff. Not to mention Convalescence is a cross skill that works wonders on WAR (even without it being enhanced since Wrath increases heal % already, and scholar heals on a WAR are way more effective because the 25% bonus HP.)

[Zaiken]

Except ... I can. And absolutely should, since the Paladin community does exactly the same thing to Warriors in order to call them inferior. With 90 - 180 second recast timers on those survivability cool-downs, you cannot guarantee 100% blanket coverage. Therefore, we must calculate for a 'worst case scenario' in which both Tanks have used their entire repertoire of cool-downs and are in limbo relying base survival values.

You're only a level 30 Marauder and a level 16 Gladiator. I don't think you have yet to experiment all this class to it full potential yet. You should try getting both class to 50 and do End Game with it, because right now you just base your statistic on the class ability itself without even trying it out yourself.

Don't get me wrong, both class are capable of Tanking. But it easier to do on a Paladin and the survivability is better. Warrior have more HP but don't have as much damage migration skill as a Paladin. Paladin also have instant stun as well as silent while Warrior have stun only.

[Azostar]

I don't think it matters which is the better tank guys, in every circumstance people will take a paladin over a warrior because it's safer, and that annoys me.

[Ruminate]

Actually, without Berserk I usually heal about 1200 from Inner Beast from just my normal rotation buffs. With Berserk on, Maim buff, and the debuff from Storm's Eye on the enemy (which also builds stacks) I heal myself for around 2k HP (sometimes more.) In a tough spot I'll be blowing off 1-2 Inner Beasts per minute which can be anywhere from 1000 extra HP I healed to upwards of 4k HP in a minute, which I like to think helps the healer tremendously, all while keeping my stacks refreshed for his heals to get the buff. Not to mention Convalescence is a cross skill that works wonders on WAR (even without it being enhanced since Wrath increases heal % already, and scholar heals on a WAR are way more effective because the 25% bonus HP.)

True or false: Inner Beast has no cooldown
Sylve believes Inner Beast has no cooldown.

As for Convalesence.... if you're implying that Convalescence helps WAR more because WAR has self-heals, thats wrong. Convalescence has no effect on WAR self-heals.

As for Scholar heals... that was already touched upon earlier in the thread.

[Azostar]

True or false: Inner Beast has no cooldown
Sylve believes Inner Beast has no cooldown.

As for Convalesence.... if you're implying that Convalescence helps WAR more because WAR has self-heals, thats wrong. Convalescence has no effect on WAR self-heals.

As for Scholar heals... that was already touched upon earlier in the thread.

Inner beast does not have a cooldown, but it requires stacks of wrath which are only granted upon using a combo ability, so for every 7.5 seconds you will generate 2 stacks of wrath. You also need 5 stacks to cast inner beast.

[Vmage]

Except ... I can. And absolutely should, since the Paladin community does exactly the same thing to Warriors in order to call them inferior. With 90 - 180 second recast timers on those survivability cool-downs, you cannot guarantee 100% blanket coverage. Therefore, we must calculate for a 'worst case scenario' in which both Tanks have used their entire repertoire of cool-downs and are in limbo relying base survival values.

it's not about 100% coverage, it's about having timers when they're required

I play both classes, I would prefer to be a warrior, but if you're trying to progress in the actual endgame (coil) a warrior is sub-par

it's possible to bring paladin and a warrior for turns 1-3, it's probably doable to double warrior turn 1 (although the first half of the fight would be hellish on healers, or if you screwed up the stacks)

turn 4 though, I'm really doubtful that a warrior could tank two dreadnaughts - at least in their current state.

it's not that warriors don't have their own defensive CDs, it's that they pale in comparison to rampart and sentinel

when I know I'm taking big hits (1500s, sometimes double 1500s) from a mob, and then for my role I have to tank two of those (quad 1500s) rampart and sentinel will keep my 5700hp paladin alive, my 7400hp warrior can hope that they take the cooldown away from benediction, cause that's the amount of healing he would require to stay up

but early game content all the way through ilvl70 stuff (titan) warrior is just fine

edit: and what's all this about stun interrupts when people were talking about ADS

turn 1 ADS cannot be stunned, you can silence high voltage - that's it

turn 1 ADS uses attacks in a set rotation, so a monk can absolutely catch every single interrupt (aside from the first)

turn 2 ADS does not use a set rotation, so an interrupt rotation is preferred (1 bard 1 paladin, 2 bards, 2 paladins) again, stunning is not possible

[Appleh4x]

True or false: Inner Beast has no cooldown
Sylve believes Inner Beast has no cooldown.

As for Convalesence.... if you're implying that Convalescence helps WAR more because WAR has self-heals, thats wrong. Convalescence has no effect on WAR self-heals.

As for Scholar heals... that was already touched upon earlier in the thread.

I'm implying that it (Convalescence) helps more because WARs already get healed for more from Wrath stacks and the higher HP pools, so stacking on that goes further than with PLD. I'm not talking self heals; all outside heals. Inner Beast technically has no cooldown, and I've used it twice in a row on more than one occasion where the healer was either out of mp, dead from stupidity or a mistake, or just paralyzed.