Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[rina_inverse]

I wont bother to read any other post, since my answer is simple, "HELL NO"

[Shougun]

Lore wise I see no issue BLM using stone and water as destruction spells - though Blizzard doesnt seem so great for CNJ all I readily think about is some sort of second stoneskin :/ (Fire and Lightning could easily be adapted to a CNJ thing though)

If you tried hard you could say the cold helps focus the mind for mp or something (reminds me of Tummo lol)

[whoopeeragon]

Like others said, water can be very destructive, so why should BLM feel mental pressure for thinking about using it? kinda silly.
You can make high pressure water streams drill/cut through steel; Or tsunamis to crush cities.
Likewise you can use fire to heat up someone who is freezing to death. or Lightning to resuscitate someone whose heart stopped beating.

oh really? except you could make a wall of ice as protection. Surround yourself in a block of ice, to absorb X damage, or nullify ice damage cast on you.

I'll answer your last segment first:

In nature, have you EVER seen ice nuture or make anything grow? Conjurers use their arts to protect the elementals and the forests - that means nuturing and maintaining the ecosystems in the forests, so to speak. Ice as protection around yourself still destroys the environment around you, yet doesn't provide the opportunity for said environment to revive itself. I speak in terms of the lore, as always when it comes to this. If we were to just talk about protection, we could have <insert element>skin, since ALL elements are capable of defending the user.

Also, I never mentioned to keep fire and lightning class-specific. I only ask for water and ice, so your relation to fire heating somebody frozen to death (which further my points about ice being destructive) is moot.

Now for water - yes, in some other universe, it would be so. However, water in THIS lore and game is mostly of the beneficial type, not to be used for heavy damage output. SE have already reached a compromise, making the Water spell a knock-back effect with low damage. I suppose I worded it wrong - for a BLM to utilise an element which is more orientated to regenerative purposes will result in a less-than-satisfied result. Not exactly 'mental' pressure, but it wouldn't result in a working ability with a BLM's damage dealing aspect in mind.

Shougun - if you used cold to calm your mind, why not use the cooling aspect of water rather than ice? Chilling your brain is very different from calming your brain. I just don't see BLM using water which is quite restorative-heavy in the game's lore as a heavy source of ability.

[Shougun]

Shougun - if you used cold to calm your mind, why not use the cooling aspect of water rather than ice? Chilling your brain is very different from calming your brain. I just don't see BLM using water which is quite restorative-heavy in the game's lore as a heavy source of ability.

I said tried hard, like people probably would just buy it as "its magic" *waving hands in the air* lol


I think fire, lightning share for aero, stone is pretty decent - then blizzard and water stay sole ownership. Besides that to my knowledge the water, solid or not has always been a very "meh" DD spell even for a decked out BLM its mostly a debuff (slow, snap to ground, reduce aggro).

[whoopeeragon]

I said tried hard, like people probably would just buy it as "its magic" *waving hands in the air* lol


I think fire, lightning share for aero, stone is pretty decent - then blizzard and water stay sole ownership. Besides that to my knowledge the water, solid or not has always been a very "meh" DD spell even for a decked out BLM its mostly a debuff (slow, snap to ground, reduce aggro).

Yup, that's what I'm getting at. Let Fire, Lightning, Wind and Earth elements be cross-class, but Ice and Water remain class-specific. Either way in lore, there will be too many contradictions otherwise.

As for the debuff issue...I hope that with Arcanist coming out as the king of debuffs, it frees up the THM elements to be truly destructive in power. It seems to have worked with CNJ already (Stone lost its magic evasion debuff, and instead is more powerful in the alpha footage) so it could work with THM and it's Ice spells as well.

[Momita]

Yup, that's what I'm getting at. Let Fire, Lightning, Wind and Earth elements be cross-class, but Ice and Water remain class-specific. Either way in lore, there will be too many contradictions otherwise.

As for the debuff issue...I hope that with Arcanist coming out as the king of debuffs, it frees up the THM elements to be truly destructive in power. It seems to have worked with CNJ already (Stone lost its magic evasion debuff, and instead is more powerful in the alpha footage) so it could work with THM and it's Ice spells as well.

BLM had an Ice wheel? IDK


:P

[Radacci]

I'll answer your last segment first:

In nature, have you EVER seen ice nuture or make anything grow? Conjurers use their arts to protect the elementals and the forests - that means nuturing and maintaining the ecosystems in the forests, so to speak. Ice as protection around yourself still destroys the environment around you, yet doesn't provide the opportunity for said environment to revive itself. I speak in terms of the lore, as always when it comes to this. If we were to just talk about protection, we could have <insert element>skin, since ALL elements are capable of defending the user.

Also, I never mentioned to keep fire and lightning class-specific. I only ask for water and ice, so your relation to fire heating somebody frozen to death (which further my points about ice being destructive) is moot.

Now for water - yes, in some other universe, it would be so. However, water in THIS lore and game is mostly of the beneficial type, not to be used for heavy damage output. SE have already reached a compromise, making the Water spell a knock-back effect with low damage. I suppose I worded it wrong - for a BLM to utilise an element which is more orientated to regenerative purposes will result in a less-than-satisfied result. Not exactly 'mental' pressure, but it wouldn't result in a working ability with a BLM's damage dealing aspect in mind.

Shougun - if you used cold to calm your mind, why not use the cooling aspect of water rather than ice? Chilling your brain is very different from calming your brain. I just don't see BLM using water which is quite restorative-heavy in the game's lore as a heavy source of ability.

Ice could be used to reflect sunlight, in case it would for some reason become to warm; So you would save the forest from dying from heat, or burning.
You're assuming the block of ice around you would last forever...it wouldn't; it would melt and nourish the forest.
And ice destroys everything every winter anyways, then it's reborn.

I was just pointing out that any element can be both destructive and protective. So it wouldn't make sense for water to be CNJ specific, and ice BLM specific.
For all purposes CNJ could use all elements also, but in protective manner; and BLM could use all elements in a destructive manner.

Hmm and i suppose Leviathans main purpose is healing *Sarcasm off*
Cure isn't water elemental, and neither is protect. And i don't see how water would be better at protection than ice anyways? water won't stop an arrow, a wall of ice would
Not to mention to much water kill plants.
Ofc Ice is destructive, as is all other elements, but all elements can also be beneficial; so you can argue with me as much as you want about it, but it wont change the facts

As for the debuff issue...I hope that with Arcanist coming out as the king of debuffs, it frees up the THM elements to be truly destructive in power. It seems to have worked with CNJ already (Stone lost its magic evasion debuff, and instead is more powerful in the alpha footage) so it could work with THM and it's Ice spells as well.

Stone became weaker than in 1.0 it has potency of 80. lancer skills have 100-200. So lancer is 2-3 times stronger than CNJ. in 1.0 is was kinda the other way around.

[Altanas]

There should be a reason to seperate nukes other than giving cnj/whm an ability to solo/DD,
basically, having nukes divided should be have a purpose behind it such as a factor influencing party play

for example:

a) using a modified skillchain/magic burst system, say a whm and blm both cast aero within 5 seconds of each other, this should conjure up a tornado at the mp cost of aero, this basically gives a reason to cross class certain spells and stop spamming if you need to rely on a party member

b) if whm cast aero, and blm cast fire within 5 seconds, the wind should give the fire an updraft and conjure up Ardor/firestorm, this would give a reason to stop spamming as you rely on party members.

[kazaran]

Most probably blm elemental will be expanded while whm has it's own tier of magic (light and devine) that has damage factors, while CNJ will be able to utilize some elements if in that roll. Need some whm mage enfeebs and dots.

[Radacci]

Most probably blm elemental will be expanded while whm has it's own tier of magic (light and devine) that has damage factors, while CNJ will be able to utilize some elements if in that roll. Need some whm mage enfeebs and dots.

What makes you think that's probable
I don't think they suddenly gonna make WHM a DPS class, and change it's heals to holy DD. It's already based on CNJ, that has some elemental skills.
I don't find it probable that they'll change BLM skills either; it already has strong spells.
I don't think they'll add more skills to either classes or jobs. it's still gonna be 16 skills for classes, and 5 for jobs.