Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Wilksha]

It has been said a long time ago that the wheel was going back to Water puts out Fire, Fire melts Ice, etc etc.

I've never read anywhere that they are changing the elemental wheel to such. ATM there isn't the same single wheel that FFXI has that was Water > Fire > Ice > Wind > Earth > Thunder > Water and Light <-> Dark. 1.0 had 3 wheels Wind > Fire > Ice > Wind; Earth > Thunder > Water > Earth; and Light(Astral) <-> Dark(Umbral). This info was actually in game and could be found at the THM guild in Ul'dah by reading the books on the counter. And as such Ifrit wasn't weak to water but weak to Wind in 1.0. If you find the post share it with us, otherwise your comment can be called truth.

[Mychael]

Either way, you are still gimping 1 side of the wheel by giving the spells to a main healing class.

For the nine billionth time, >>>CONJURER<<< is not a "healing class."

>>>White mage<<< is a healing job, which happens to use Conjurer as its base class.

Conjurer is a basic job that can (and hopefully will) branch in other directions. You're asking SE to take those possibilities away.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

Lol I'm surprised of those so against the idea on this.

WHM cannot be main DD but yet WHM has DD spells - so SE has to keep the wheel down on EG content, as there is no way i'd be ok for the WHM DDing over the BLM and when you use the wheel that would happen (and it appears SE agrees since nothing EG is really weak to stone, or any element really).

WHM doesn't have DD spells. CNJ does. WHM gets them by extension. If this was the argument, I'd be okay with it:

- Remove non white magic spells from white mage, but leave it in CNJ (and give White mage white magic DD)

Or better yet, make the WHM soul stone have the opposite effect of Cleric Stance, i.e. WHMs will still have stone and aero, but they'll suck.

The underlying issue, though, is that people are dissatisfied with BLM. And there are a plethora of ways SE could overcome that, without taking ANYTHING from CNJ/WHM. But the real problem is, the OP didn't call this topic "How to make BLM a more balanced DD." It's "Removing elemental nukes from WHM"

[Shougun]

WHM doesn't have DD spells. CNJ does. WHM gets them by extension. If this was the argument, I'd be okay with it:


Or better yet, make the WHM soul stone have the opposite effect of Cleric Stance, i.e. WHMs will still have stone and aero, but they'll suck.

The underlying issue, though, is that people are dissatisfied with BLM. And there are a plethora of ways SE could overcome that, without taking ANYTHING from CNJ/WHM. But the real problem is, the OP didn't call this topic "How to make BLM a more balanced DD." It's "Removing elemental nukes from WHM"

Yeah you are right in that CNJ gets the DD spells but since there is no difference between CNJ DD and WHM DD it wouldnt matter. Although your next point solves exactly that issue :P so ok I agree then lol

Why is it a problem that CNJ/WHM can out damage a BLM on 3 mobs in the game then?
a GLD/PLD could out damage a BLM if mob isn't weak vs any of BLM spells; Even more so if it's resistant to all spells.

MNK, DRG etc arn't welcome in many parties, cause everyone wanna stack BLM, so it would be about time, there was a fight where BLM is left out

Yeah currently 3 mobs but further in my post I said that would be a big problem if those mobs include EG contents (where balance matters most). BLM can be left out if SE is trying to design content where each class is left out of something (I dont that is there intention though).

But WHM shouldnt be replacing BLM as DD, WHM is a healer with nice damage - and shouldnt considered EG as a healer and epic damage (stone weak bosses).

And that was all my point was. I dont care WHM can DD just so long as they dont become best at two things while all other classes are only best at one thing (which is bad balance in relation, imo).

Mychael has suggested another solution

[Altena]

For the nine billionth time, >>>CONJURER<<< is not a "healing class."

>>>White mage<<< is a healing job, which happens to use Conjurer as its base class.

Conjurer is a basic job that can (and hopefully will) branch in other directions. You're asking SE to take those possibilities away.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

I could say the same to you..

I have already stated that
a) Yes CNJ is a mage with nukes & heals. It is not a main healing class
b) CNJ it is a class
c) It does branch into another job that happens to be a main healer.

The advanced job turns CNJ into a strong healer, but does not gimp to any extensive level, WHM's ability to be a DD. In fact it has been said & proven in this thread by many people (a topic that I didn't get involved in because it was a derail) that WHM is actually a more effective solo nuker then CNJ with the addition to Regen.

No one uses the class system currently. If you still used CNJ in patch 1.23 to solo or nuke, then you are effectively gimping yourself.

I am not against changing the class system so that they become useful again at all, however I am against certain elements being tied up into a main healer job (ie WHM) which will indefinitely be gimped due to the fact they will not ever be able to be as strong as a main nuking class - otherwise that would cause an imbalance.

At the moment - WHM is pretty broken, in comparison to other jobs.
You can spiritbond your unfinished relic solo in just a few hours, when other jobs spend a solid day on it.
That isn't broken? Ok, then it's a great solo class... It can also push some heavy nukes when the time calls for it (against wind/stone weak mobs), and main heal a full party of 8.

Remember we are talking about White Mage here, not Conjurer.

CNJ has always been semi-broken, and the nerf in the job patch removed some of that over-power. In the early days, CNJ could solo Dodore . . .

Two thing we can agree on I am sure is:
BLM is currently strong at doing ranged magic damage. (nothing else).
WHM (or CNJ) is currently fairly strong at solo'ing, exceptionally good at main healing, and reasonably solid nuking.

If you don't see an imbalance here then I don't know what else to tell you.
The fact is yes, you are indeed gimping one half of the elemental chain if you were to keep the utility based aero/stone/water on WHM.

These utility spells will never be as strong as a BLM nuke.
These spells are bound to half of the elemental chain.
This means that only half of the chain will be effective.
If they were to expand on CNJ or WHM's ability to nuke, that would push us back to an even more overpowered job then it currently is.

Yes WHM/CNJ is overpowered. It should never have the same or even similar capability to BLM in regards to a nuking job.
Yes it needs to have the ability to solo (hence the light based nuke suggestion).
Once again, forcing half the elemental chain on a job that should be a weaker nuker than BLM, will cause only half of the chain to be unbalanced and gimped. This effectively ruins the whole elemental chain.

[Lady]

In other words... you don't want WHM to be able to solo like all the other classes can.

[Reika]

In other words... you don't want WHM to be able to solo like all the other classes can.

WHM would be able to solo just fine with light based attacks. I dont remember having an issue killing things with scourge and banish back in the day.

[Altena]

In other words... you don't want WHM to be able to solo like all the other classes can.

In other words people should read posts, instead of hitting the reply button straight after reading the subject line.

[Lady]

In other words people should read posts, instead of hitting the reply button straight after reading the subject line.

wow... just wow... little bit grumpy this morning?

[Altena]

wow... just wow... little bit grumpy this morning?

Nope, I'm peachy

But my statement still stands.

[Lady]

Nope, I'm peachy

But my statement still stands.

Well it was rude...

Stating a whm could solo with Banish is ridiculous. But again, I think this is another situation where someone wants FFXIV to be FFXI-2