Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Thebard]

So what you are saying is because SE insisted on keeping the armoury system we are left with remnants of the original game that don't make sense?
Is it too late to start a "get rid of the nonsensical armoury system" campaign?
If only people had been saying that since the original alpha, if only they had, well I don't know, quit and never gone back to the game....shame nobody did that huh?

[schism]

I'd be all for that campaign lol. But yes we do have some left-over's.

So what you are saying is because SE insisted on keeping the armoury system we are left with remnants of the original game that don't make sense?
Is it too late to start a "get rid of the nonsensical armoury system" campaign?
If only people had been saying that since the original alpha, if only they had, well I don't know, quit and never gone back to the game....shame nobody did that huh?

[Thebard]

I'd be all for that campaign lol. But yes we do have some left-over's.

You know that sarcasm thing we talked about before?

[Zumi]

WHM need nukes for questing / leveling. If they don't have some way to kill mobs in the new quest based exp system then leveling would be very painful.

[Thebard]

WHM need nukes for questing / leveling. If they don't have some way to kill mobs in the new quest based exp system then leveling would be very painful.

They could have non-elemental nukes, the thread is about elemental nukes, its in the title and everthing.

[Kinseykinz]

This has been debated to death in previous similar topics, but just to reason why WHM should have access to Elemental spells I'll bite.

1. White Mage stems from Conjurer and Gladiator. But while it has access to to skills from both these classes, the only skills that people like to say they don't deserve are their only damage-dealing, CNJ-based spells. White Mage IS a specialized Conjurer...so it stands to reason that it should retain CNJ spells.

2. The in-game lore does support CNJ keeping the life giving and protective elements. Sure, wind can be a Tornado but it is also the breath of life...Earthquakes topple buildings, but the earth also blesses us with life-giving food. Even the guild being located in Gridania, makes sense...hippy town:-) Again, CNJ being the main class required to unlock a healing job makes sense.

3. Even if CNJ-WHM didn't have the dd spells, most of its buffs are forms of the Aero-water-stone spell sets....even if enhancing magic is their main modifier.

4. At the end of the day, most people who complain about this do so because they want a blm who can cast all the elements. Even if SE switched the abilities and spells allowing this, the reality is, that with the way the current action bar is setup, you could not set all the spells from all the elements anyway. Also, the current setup is fairly balanced.... giving one job all the elemental magic would not only make the mages unbalanced amongst themselves but blm would OP the other party roles.

5. The reason light-dark magic and abilities were removed was to set them aside for later jobs. More than likely, THM will spawn a job that gets to use them again...but that is well in the future. Nonetheless, SE has to keep those spells and abilities out of the game for now so they can be added later when that job arrives.

6. We are only mid-level when it comes to our character development. Sure cap is 50 now, but the game is not being designed around 50 being level cap forever. Therefore, you are missing a lot of jobs and abilities you might gain later. Who's to say that in order to level post 50 we won't need to do quests etc to unlock it? Maybe a level 75 blm does learn water, Aero, and stone by studying with the CNJ guild and unlocking those spells in a quest....or maybe THM does get some umbral spells...they are just post level 50.

[whoopeeragon]

If anything, Water should be the only element Black Mages should never receive in FFXIV. Water in the lore is synonymous with healing and protection - as devout practitioners of havoc, Black Mages should feel mental pressure for even thinking about using Water to function as an offensive ability.

I really don't see a reason to remove elemental nukes from this iteration of a White Mage, especially given their lore background in conjunction with conjurers. Black Mages focus on the ethereal elements while White Mages focus on the foundation elements - you can't build or provide aid with fire, lightning or ice.

The main problem here isn't the fact that Black Mage has only three elements to control - it's the fact that in those three elements, frequently used spells aren't common. The only real offensively damaging spell from the ice element was Freeze - the rest were cast into being debuff-centric. Yes, it would be an issue about that, seeing as there was no class that functioned as debuffs and dots.

But we're getting arcanist. A class that has been emphasised on debuffing and dots. Who knows, maybe all those debuffs will be removed, and in place, offensive levels of spells will increase. We saw that already with CNJ if you paid attention in the alpha videos - Stone lost the magic evasion down debuff, but it's the hardest hitting spell out of Stone, Aero and Water.

Right now we don't know how having arcanist will change things regarding the magic side of combat. Even without it, I see no plausible reason for the removal of elements from the CNJ/WHM's branch of abilities, considering the lore, as the branch has always been shown as a practitioner of the worship of elementals, which are spiritual manifestations of ELEMENTS. They aren't practitioners of the divine - there is no cause for divine intervention in a forest which is supported by elements.

That's not to say that I don't want to see elements return as they are - energy infused with elements that actually do damage rather than status effects. But that's more a problem with how the abilities themselves were shaped to be after reform, not the class/job itself. Fix the spells first, which they seem to be already doing. If anything, I'm looking forward to seeing the classic approach to a Black Mage (primary fire thunder and ice) and a new twist to a White Mage (becoming one and protecting the forests and life).

[Radacci]

Of course, there would definitely have to be tweaks to make such a spell balanced. Say the odds of it landing on a regular mob is very likely, the odds of it landing on a NM is less likely, and the odds of it landing on a boss such as Garuda is slim to none. Then even in the event the effect does stick, casting raise for a one hit KO is out of the question, so cure bombs only. But yes, I'm sure various mechanics could be implemented so such a spell doesn't become OP.

Why would zombie be OP? you'd just use heals for damage, like other bosses having elemental weaknesses. And WHM shouldn't waste MP on damage in boss fights; that's what the DPS classes are for.

If anything, Water should be the only element Black Mages should never receive in FFXIV. Water in the lore is synonymous with healing and protection - as devout practitioners of havoc, Black Mages should feel mental pressure for even thinking about using Water to function as an offensive ability.

Like others said, water can be very destructive, so why should BLM feel mental pressure for thinking about using it? kinda silly.
You can make high pressure water streams drill/cut through steel; Or tsunamis to crush cities.
Likewise you can use fire to heat up someone who is freezing to death. or Lightning to resuscitate someone whose heart stopped beating.

For a CNJ to borrow Ice powers is ludicrous - ice can never be used for restoration or protection.

oh really? except you could make a wall of ice as protection. Surround yourself in a block of ice, to absorb X damage, or nullify ice damage cast on you.

[whoopeeragon]

Like others said, water can be very destructive, so why should BLM feel mental pressure for thinking about using it? kinda silly.
You can make high pressure water streams drill/cut through steel; Or tsunamis to crush cities.
Likewise you can use fire to heat up someone who is freezing to death. or Lightning to resuscitate someone whose heart stopped beating.

oh really? except you could make a wall of ice as protection. Surround yourself in a block of ice, to absorb X damage, or nullify ice damage cast on you.

I'll answer your last segment first:

In nature, have you EVER seen ice nuture or make anything grow? Conjurers use their arts to protect the elementals and the forests - that means nuturing and maintaining the ecosystems in the forests, so to speak. Ice as protection around yourself still destroys the environment around you, yet doesn't provide the opportunity for said environment to revive itself. I speak in terms of the lore, as always when it comes to this. If we were to just talk about protection, we could have <insert element>skin, since ALL elements are capable of defending the user.

Also, I never mentioned to keep fire and lightning class-specific. I only ask for water and ice, so your relation to fire heating somebody frozen to death (which further my points about ice being destructive) is moot.

Now for water - yes, in some other universe, it would be so. However, water in THIS lore and game is mostly of the beneficial type, not to be used for heavy damage output. SE have already reached a compromise, making the Water spell a knock-back effect with low damage. I suppose I worded it wrong - for a BLM to utilise an element which is more orientated to regenerative purposes will result in a less-than-satisfied result. Not exactly 'mental' pressure, but it wouldn't result in a working ability with a BLM's damage dealing aspect in mind.

Shougun - if you used cold to calm your mind, why not use the cooling aspect of water rather than ice? Chilling your brain is very different from calming your brain. I just don't see BLM using water which is quite restorative-heavy in the game's lore as a heavy source of ability.