Quote Originally Posted by Mawlzy View Post
Shatter is so different to the other maps, it almost feels like it should be left out of the discussion. I agree that mass slaughter around mid (and elsewhere) typically indicates an effective premade/shotcaller is on an enemy team. Equally, in the absence of an effective premade, the result of the match is frequently decided by the initial spawn pattern. It's a rubbish concept in which a premade can swing the result, largely because of the ineptitude of many of the players.

My two arguments against the presence of premades have been:

1. The presence of four coordinated people on one team should not have the ability to swing a win-rate from 33% to 70%+.
2. Playing with or against a premade creates dull matches, that develop the same characteristics as the awful DDR PvE in the game, and I'm playing PvP precisely to avoid such monothematic combat.

Banning premades is a solution to both problems, but discussions here have convinced me it need not be the best solution.

Unfortunately, alternative solutions (mostly involving crude matchmaking and fundamental changes in job design) are probably too much work for SQEX to implement.

And then we have the promised role actions coming in 7.2.

I'd like to be optimistic, but I'm pretty sure these will make the current situation even worse. Any increase in skill expression while maintaining a burst-heavy meta is likely to increase the efficacy of premades.
Agreed on almost all accounts (the exception being that segregation of premades and solos is not the best solution). To be honest there's many problems with PvP currently, and while eliminating premades only addresses one big problem, it addresses it well.

I've played with and against premades on maps other than Shatter where the premade is sufficiently coordinated to steamroll opponents. Although they can be combatted easier than on Shatter, it requires some coordination and cooperation from the whole team. For example, on seal rock, I've seen a premade push an enemy team for 20 seconds, pull back for 20 seconds, then sweep in again like a tide, decimating the enemy. The reason it mainly happens on Shatter and not the other maps is because of various factors that make steamrolling much easier on Shatter (like you've said). On seal rock or the nadaam, they have to put in more effort to keep the death ball rolling, it's harder and it threatens their win rate. Most of these toxic premades don't actually like to have to put in effort so they don't bother, if they can just wait a day or two for Shatter to be on the menu.

Even if Shatter were removed or reworked, the toxic premades will rework their strategy or their mentality, but they won't vanish.