Ban premade parties in Frontline please

[Aravell]

Not really certain that more ramps would “help…” Shatter just has several mechanics that favor teams that play consistently well the entire match.

It would solve the very immediate problem of no team wanting to enter the big ice to fight because the other team will mindlessly sandwich them as soon as they enter the passageway, even if the team in the big ice is currently the winning team.

It obviously wouldn't help people who know how to play FL because there's multiple ways to attack someone's big ice safer than running in through the front passage.

I’d also have to disagree about the amount of skill expression there is with the few amount of buttons there are since people can’t seem to actually press them or know what they do. I don’t think anyone would enjoy APM being a major factor in PvP performance either…

I don't think the fact that some people are below the skill floor changes the fact that the skill ceiling is still low due to the limited amount of buttons limiting skill interactions. I'm not asking for high APM either, I'm just pointing out that skill with their job is the least of someone's problems when they're not doing well in FL, it's mostly, well, everything else.

if only there were some sort of guide that taught that.

It's unfortunate that the people who most need a guide are least likely to seek one out.

[Mawlzy]

It's unfortunate that the people who most need a guide are least likely to seek one out.

Particularly given that there is a stubborn rump of players who do not enter FL to PvP. They're there for XP and, incomprehensibly, some boo-ugly glam.

[Mawlzy]

I don’t think anyone would enjoy APM being a major factor in PvP performance either…

I think that's right, but equally with the bulk of the damage tied to burst, there's way too much downtime waiting for stuff to come off CD IMO. Particularly when everyone is waiting for your "D" waymark to start moving.

[OliviaLugria]

I definitely understand your aversion to burst, but it has been the prevailing strategy (even if we didn’t use it at the time) since PvP’s inception. I’m not really even sure why it’s such a foreign concept when it’s what PvE is built around as well.

The number of core game mechanics from job design to map design would have to change, and I have 0 doubts that SE will do anything of the sort.

This is what we’re working with for the next 2-4 years.

[Exmo]

It actually looks more like you're complaining about Shatter as a map then trying hard to pin the entirety of the problems all on the premades.

You said yourself that it's possible to push premades back in all the other maps but it's harder in Shatter. Does that not indicate clearly that your problem is with Shatter rather than premades? Shatter is a map that favours deathballs after all, so if the map gets changed to have less chokepoints (like reintroducing the second ramp on the big ice), a lot of the problems would be solved.

Nope. I'm saying it happens more often on Shatter, but there's a point a few minutes into a game where you and your team realize you're playing against a premade so you have to go into "versus premade" mode. That is not something that should happen.

[Mawlzy]

I definitely understand your aversion to burst, but it has been the prevailing strategy (even if we didn’t use it at the time) since PvP’s inception. I’m not really even sure why it’s such a foreign concept when it’s what PvE is built around as well.

The number of core game mechanics from job design to map design would have to change, and I have 0 doubts that SE will do anything of the sort.

This is what we’re working with for the next 2-4 years.

I'm interested to see if the role actions modify the burst any. Primarily I think smaller skirmishes are interesting, both tactically and strategically. But they aren't really feasible with the DR.

[Teno]

Nope. I'm saying it happens more often on Shatter, but there's a point a few minutes into a game where you and your team realize you're playing against a premade so you have to go into "versus premade" mode. That is not something that should happen.

The problem is that shatter's design is hot, hot garbage, not so much that the premades make it unplayable or anything.

[Exmo]

The problem is that shatter's design is hot, hot garbage, not so much that the premades make it unplayable or anything.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have a lot more fun on the map when I'm not playing with or against premades

[gidsonBrand]

"Versus premade mode"
Why is that a bad thing at all? You're changing your tactics to adapt to the game, either ganging up with the 3rd team or playing safer.

Like...that's player versus player games in a nutshell? Why would this be different if it was a group of solo queue players who just know how to coordinate as a group?

[Themarvin]

Well remove the use of using macros in FL then and and remove the map as well, have the system calling out when things are active and up.... it would make the gameplay much more interesting as it is.