Ban premade parties in Frontline please

[Stasya]

massive skill issue all around here

^this person will instanly drop playing pvp once frontlines will face premades vs premades, unless they will match with friends group to win trade.

[ChrysOCE]

^this person will instanly drop playing pvp once frontlines will face premades vs premades, unless they will match with friends group to win trade.

or... premades isn't the main issue and it's the lack of player skill?
Shatter alone - people focusing on ice and ignoring another team running towards them and getting wiped out, ignoring warnings of a team above and behind and getting wiped out, focusing on ice and ignoring actually pvping and wondering why teams with higher BH roll teams later in the match, players not realising that pvp = bh = easier fights/ice melting, ignoring middle ice to focus on own ice, focusing on own ice and not attempting to pinch enemy team until it is done meaning far too late to engage. like it IS a skill issue. premades are not easy to play against but the general player base dont make it any easier. and its the same every match

[Exmo]

or... premades isn't the main issue and it's the lack of player skill?
Shatter alone - people focusing on ice and ignoring another team running towards them and getting wiped out, ignoring warnings of a team above and behind and getting wiped out, focusing on ice and ignoring actually pvping and wondering why teams with higher BH roll teams later in the match, players not realising that pvp = bh = easier fights/ice melting, ignoring middle ice to focus on own ice, focusing on own ice and not attempting to pinch enemy team until it is done meaning far too late to engage. like it IS a skill issue. premades are not easy to play against but the general player base dont make it any easier. and its the same every match

You're saying that people need to make lots of mistakes consistently and play exceptionally poorly in order for the game to be so imbalanced. And yet, remove premades from the equation and the problem goes away. Sounds like premades are the main issue.

[Atreus]

You're saying that people need to make lots of mistakes consistently and play exceptionally poorly in order for the game to be so imbalanced. And yet, remove premades from the equation and the problem goes away. Sounds like premades are the main issue.

More like people are so exceptionally, and willfully awful at this game's PvP that they make premaders look like super soldiers. How 'bout we stop rewarding base-level participation? That'll truly solve the problem.

[Exmo]

More like people are so exceptionally, and willfully awful at this game's PvP that they make premaders look like super soldiers. How 'bout we stop rewarding base-level participation? That'll truly solve the problem.

People don't get suddenly and miraculously better at PvP when the map isn't shatter. And yet, games on those maps are rarely as imbalanced as games against premades in Shatter. The problem isn't player skill level, it's the prevalence of toxic premades.

[ChrysOCE]

People don't get suddenly and miraculously better at PvP when the map isn't shatter. And yet, games on those maps are rarely as imbalanced as games against premades in Shatter. The problem isn't player skill level, it's the prevalence of toxic premades.

It doesn't matter what the map is. You can have matches in Shatter, Onsal and SR with no premades and have the same results, players bunching up and getting mass KO'd, ignoring the score and fighting 2nd/3rd place instead of 1st, self-pinching by inserting themselves into the middle of a fight instead of going to the rear of one of the opponents, staying too long on an engagement instead of disengaging to contest the next one. those aren't premade issues.

[Exmo]

It doesn't matter what the map is. You can have matches in Shatter, Onsal and SR with no premades and have the same results, players bunching up and getting mass KO'd, ignoring the score and fighting 2nd/3rd place instead of 1st, self-pinching by inserting themselves into the middle of a fight instead of going to the rear of one of the opponents, staying too long on an engagement instead of disengaging to contest the next one. those aren't premade issues.

Sorry but this is just incorrect. The vast majority of bulldozing happens against premades, mainly on Shatter. Remove premades from the equation and bulldozing happens only rarely.

We're not talking about players not playing optimally, we're talking about huge differences between team performance.

It couldn't possibly be down to skill issue because when random players are on the same team as toxic premades, the random players prop up the bulldozer and benefit from it. It just doesn't make any sense that the same players are who are low skilled when against a premade are suddenly high skilled when with a premade. The skill level of the player hasn't changed. What's changed is whether they are with or against the toxic premade. Therefore, toxic premades are the main factor for team imbalances.

[Mawlzy]

More like people are so exceptionally, and willfully awful at this game's PvP that they make premaders look like super soldiers. How 'bout we stop rewarding base-level participation? That'll truly solve the problem.

Yeah I think attributing this purely to a skill issue runs the risk of excusing/misdiagnosing lethargic play.

In a low-skill mode, it's hard for skill to make much of a difference. What does make a difference is people not engaging at all.

Somewhat surprisingly, I've found the worst of the lethargic offenders frequently queue in with friends (clear by their discussions in party chat). This is irritating since it makes them basically immune to vote-kicking. Maybe that's the idea?

[ChrysOCE]

Yeah I think attributing this purely to a skill issue runs the risk of excusing/misdiagnosing lethargic play.

In a low-skill mode, it's hard for skill to make much of a difference. What does make a difference is people not engaging at all.

Somewhat surprisingly, I've found the worst of the lethargic offenders frequently queue in with friends (clear by their discussions in party chat). This is irritating since it makes them basically immune to vote-kicking. Maybe that's the idea?

I dont know about that, you can definitely see the skill difference between a veteran pvp player and someone who is new to FL. but you at least hope there is a willingness to learn and improve.
But yea, the lethargic or (imo worse) deliberately detrimental players are worse and there is no excuse for Square to not deal with them. people who consistantly get 0-0-0 or 0-10+-0

[Mawlzy]

I dont know about that, you can definitely see the skill difference between a veteran pvp player and someone who is new to FL. but you at least hope there is a willingness to learn and improve.
But yea, the lethargic or (imo worse) deliberately detrimental players are worse and there is no excuse for Square to not deal with them. people who consistantly get 0-0-0 or 0-10+-0

Yeah that's fair. Experience for those paying attention means they position better and anticipate enemy attacks. It's quite a beautiful thing when you get a team with map sense, and the team moves with common purpose.

I would argue that there is no actual skill issue in FL, because there's only so much skill you can show with such a limited amount of buttons. What people lack in FL are all the related knowledge to function properly in large-scale PvP, such as spatial awareness, map awareness, positioning, the ebb and flow of combat, etc.

Right this is exactly what I was getting at.