#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Rithy255]

Well, there is now an FRU clear without tanks (3H5D) so that's neat

I'm really not the surpised.
I feel like the people pointing at tanks being the issue with healer design need to realise about 80% of the issue is encounter design itself and not fully issues with tanks.

to go over what I've already said a thousand times on this forum, I do think theirs obviously some parts tanks do play in healer issues such as the obvious tanks strong mitigative and self healing values (with the most obvious example of that being warrior) but I think the Larger issue has always been with the content itself not even utilising our tank or healer kits properly.

I don't think this can be argued anymore as a simple matter of "remove x from tanks" it's we need to actually overhaul both so they play into each other correctly, but also most importantly this should point out that encounter design really should have more importance on role design.

[OverTheHill]

There were some interesting mechanics in the previous expansion dungeons where healers had to heal to full to cure doom for example. Although between that and occasionally casting esuna, it feels like there is not much that a healer can do that the other classes can't.

I wonder if the devs will ever read these message boards.

[Azurarok]

I'm really not the surpised.
I feel like the people pointing at tanks being the issue with healer design need to realise about 80% of the issue is encounter design itself and not fully issues with tanks.

to go over what I've already said a thousand times on this forum, I do think theirs obviously some parts tanks do play in healer issues such as the obvious tanks strong mitigative and self healing values (with the most obvious example of that being warrior) but I think the Larger issue has always been with the content itself not even utilising our tank or healer kits properly.

I don't think this can be argued anymore as a simple matter of "remove x from tanks" it's we need to actually overhaul both so they play into each other correctly, but also most importantly this should point out that encounter design really should have more importance on role design.

I kinda thought the better part of this thread's posters agree the encounter design is a major issue, but I don't think tank survivability is that small an issue either. It really doesn't help that they won't stop buffing them when it clearly wasn't necessary, also.

The biggest one there imo is that Tanks don't have to trade off their dps to pull off their healing skills (with the sole exception of Clemency). It's fine that they have healing skills imo, but they need to come at some cost. If you get matched with a mediocre Healer it's reasonable to be able to help cover for them. It's not so much if they could just do it on the side for free, since that's when they're actually encroaching on the healer role.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Trying to argue which ones are the 'larger issue' seems moot at this point as their ignorance over the year has literally made all these seemingly 'small issues' festers up to what we're seeing today.

Rectify all of that. No quarters.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Well, there is now an FRU clear without tanks (3H5D) so that's neat

I did once quite some time ago say that to some extent it's tanks generally being made obsolete rather than Healers... And they're turning Tanks more into just better Healers, you mostly just need a DPS tough and shielded enough to facetank a tankbuster... The only mechanic where tanks are strictly needed is tankswaps.
Outside of that, Tanks can be a DPS and a Healer, with WAR and PLD being the more healery ones, but they do keep creeping more healing onto DRK and GNB...

[Supersnow845]

Tanks have been proverbially useless since they removed agro management to the point they basically have no unique mechanics. The reason that’s a healer problem is because in exchange for tank mechanics they basically made them into healers with more bulk that also do more damage

The game has a wider encounter issue where they don’t take advantage of the trinity which affects all roles except pure DPS (ie support DPS suffer as well) the tank problem relative to healers is the fact that in exchange for no tank mechanics they just gave tanks healer mechanics

[Rithy255]

Snip

Some levels of "free" tank healing skills are fine no one complained about aurora in shadowbringers despite it not really having any trade offs, it's more the amount on tanks that is too much rather then tanks having any non "free" healing skills, there doesn't need to be a "cost" for tank healing skills, there just needs to be less

I'll first talk about PLD/GNB where its obvious they are starting to trend towards having too much sustain, Paladin I feel like needs to just have the magic attacks not heal them, maybe let royal Authority have a small heal effect in general, Holy sheltron/intervention regen on its own isn't really that egregious, Gunbreaker Aurora should go back to 200 Potency while also lowering its excog quite a bit.
Warrior is a Prime example of just having free healing skills if you look at its toolkit literally every one of it's skills has a some form of healing I do think warrior can keep some of its "free" healing, but it needs to be toned down alot, also having aoe per hit heal effects is just unhealthy and trivializes any sort of "pull" a dungeon has.

My biggest issue is to do with Mitigation, I think people focus too much on tank healing, as a Paladin what's keeping me up in a pull is 90% my mitigation value because i have so many strong defensives if the group got enough damage I wouldn't generally need any sort of healing, trust me the healing on the holy blade combo and sheltron is nice but actually has no where near as much as a impact as my actual mitigation value has, I don't really know why people really think its a small regen that is actually the broken part that keeps me alive it's really not.

I think we need to tone down Mitigative values on tanks and boost some of the healers single target mits actually, all tanks 40%'s are really strong to the point where its actually just too strong I don't mind them having unique aspects but they need to be toned down along with our Mitigative tools giving two stacked effects, just make it a simple 15-20% + some small sustain effect and it would be fine.

All I'm saying is the argument of "lets just remove all heals from tanks and dps" isn't really a good argument onto how to make healer a actual fun role I hardly think it would even make healer fun because tanks would still have absurd mitigations... you maybe do one or two ogcd heals now... woohoo?

I also don't really play tank to be "I aggro and do boring rotation role" I actually like protecting teammates as a tank and contributing utility like veil, wings, intervention ect. I want more instances where I feel like I'm actually protecting my team.

In summary, some free healing is fine the current levels on pld/gnb need toning down and warrior is way over the limit of free healing tools, but I think mitigation also plays a stronger part in why tanks feel so survivable.

[CSX]

This seems like a very passionate discussion but I would like to make a worthless post to acknowledge these funny tags rofl! Love it!

[Absurdity]

Some levels of "free" tank healing skills are fine no one complained about aurora in shadowbringers despite it not really having any trade offs, it's more the amount on tanks that is too much rather then tanks having any non "free" healing skills, there doesn't need to be a "cost" for tank healing skills, there just needs to be less

Warrior is a Prime example of just having free healing skills if you look at its toolkit literally every one of it's skills has a some form of healing I do think warrior can keep some of its "free" healing, but it needs to be toned down alot, also having aoe per hit heal effects is just unhealthy and trivializes any sort of "pull" a dungeon has.

It simply needs to go back to pre-ShB, where it's healing came at a cost.

Equilibrium only healed in Defiance, coming with the cost of either losing damage or having to use another long cooldown to temporarily disable the damage penalty from Defiance.
Inner Beast came with both short mitigation and strong life leech, but at the cost of not being able to spend the gauge on Fell Cleave instead.
The only healing that was technically free was the 20% HP restore from Thrill of Battle, but using it for the healing meant losing it as a mitigation tool.

And if you needed really strong self-healing to survive on your own you needed to waste Inner Release on spamming Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave, a huge dps loss.
Made you think twice about using your own healing tools instead of relying on the healers in your party, but you still had access to it if absolutely necessary.

[Supersnow845]

It simply needs to go back to pre-ShB, where it's healing came at a cost.

Equilibrium only healed in Defiance, coming with the cost of either losing damage or having to use another long cooldown to temporarily disable the damage penalty from Defiance.
Inner Beast came with both short mitigation and strong life leech, but at the cost of not being able to spend the gauge on Fell Cleave instead.
The only healing that was technically free was the 20% HP restore from Thrill of Battle, but using it for the healing meant losing it as a mitigation tool.

Thrill also expires. It’s why shields on tanks are generally well balanced. Because if they aren't used for soaking a TB they expire with no healing actually applied