#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Aravell]

Like Aravell said, if you want their less polite and unfiltered opinions you need to go on the japanese equivalent of 4chan. Although I'm pretty sure that's 2ch, no idea what 5ch is.

I honestly forgot whether it was 2 or 5, I just know it isn't 4.

But yeah, Japanese players can be far more vicious in their unfiltered opinion than anything you read over here on the EN forums. They mostly just keep it classy on the official forums just to stay within the boundaries of the rules (something the EN forums isn't known for).

[Kozh]

5ch is the new name, formerly it's 2ch

[Nadda]

What you have to consider though is based on the censuses over 50% of the game entire base playerbase (ie ignoring Korea and China) play on NA alone.

We know that JP is more blasé about the state of healers but you also have to consider that near exclusive adherence to JP feedback at the expense of western feedback isn’t a very balanced view to take when western players are the majority of the playerbase

I just think that it's strange more than anything.
Anyways while I don't jive with 100% of Healer Strike stuff... maybe being able to communicate it in Japanese would be helpful for the time being.
I do agree that one audience shouldn't be at the expense of another audience. Though ironically that happens with a lot of Japanese games.
You ever see a niche title come to the west and it underperforms a little so the company from Japan just stops sending those games over here for several decades.

They have a weird knee jerk reaction to things and quizically are content with doing fine in their own markets than abroad. Maybe they don't have the capacity to acknowledge the Western half

As I said a coordinated effort to push more Western audience complaints in a Japanese format might get the message across. It just needs to be done in a fashion where it can also stir the Japanese player base.
I think it'd be a good idea.

Which really has to do with Western branches of Square (We could just have people working for Square on our side who just aren't communicating) vs Eastern branches Square... but with a good push you could turn 50% of the player base into 100% globally. That can't be ignored.

[ForsakenRoe]

Could always use like Chat GPT then double-check with several other apps to make sure you can get your point across.

With no knowledge of Japanese language, grammar, syntax etc, I would not feel confident in trusting that these machine-tools would convey the tone correctly. I want it to be very emphasized that 'I did not write Job Designs because I think the devs did a bad job or that I can do better, but because there are some 'missing bricks in the wall' and I feel that I have some viable ideas on how to fill those holes', but if I don't know Japanese at all, how can I be certain that my desired tone-of-message is conveyed, instead of it coming out sounding... well, robotic and emotionless?

Going to post via machine translation on the Japanese forums would definitely be the nuclear option as it would likely annoy everyone there, the players, the mods and quite likely even people on dev side... But it would at least put the idea that there might be dissatisfaction in front of people.

I think if the JP side were very against the state of Healers too, they'd maybe be more receptive to the idea of 'someone coming in and saying 'hey I've got ideas on how we could fix some of the problems''. But, if the general consensus over there is that there's no problem in the first place, I expect what I have to say would come off as very tone-deaf, pot-stirring for no reason, etc.


If anyone knows JP, or is willing to face the potential wrath of JP for using translation tools, I don't mind my stuff being posted over there. I'm just not at the point where I feel brave enough to do it myself

edit: a quick test with Google Chrome and the Translate function shows, the dropdown boxes this forum uses (the HB tags) work very...not good, with the translation. Seems you can translate the contents of a dropdown box, but only if it's already open, and trying to open it after translation doesn't work. Also, the formatting is kinda wacky post-translation (like, three abilities all described at once instead of being seperated by line breaks, kind of wacky). Also, also, somehow Chrome's Translate can work out how to translate some pseudo-fantasy or Olde English words that we don't really use much anymore. Like Adloquium, or Enthuse, and apparently it just Katakana's other words like Aetherflow. But it can't work out 'Strategies' or 'Rouse'?

[MisterNublet]

I think if the JP side were very against the state of Healers too, they'd maybe be more receptive to the idea of 'someone coming in and saying 'hey I've got ideas on how we could fix some of the problems''. But, if the general consensus over there is that there's no problem in the first place, I expect what I have to say would come off as very tone-deaf, pot-stirring for no reason, etc.


If anyone knows JP, or is willing to face the potential wrath of JP for using translation tools, I don't mind my stuff being posted over there. I'm just not at the point where I feel brave enough to do it myself

Last I saw, in this thread even, the JP community was very anti-healer strike and we're against any kind of changes that would improve its dps rotation.

Could things have changed in the last few months? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it. They also don't like it when "gaijins" go over to their side of the forums for any reason.

Also, JP posting criticism on 2/5chan doesn't help when the Devs only see JP praising the braindead gameplay on the official forums.

[Aravell]

I think if the JP side were very against the state of Healers too, they'd maybe be more receptive to the idea of 'someone coming in and saying 'hey I've got ideas on how we could fix some of the problems''. But, if the general consensus over there is that there's no problem in the first place, I expect what I have to say would come off as very tone-deaf, pot-stirring for no reason, etc.

Last time I checked, they are actually very against the state of the healer role, the problems they have with the role touch on some stuff we have problems with too, like being invalidated as a role, having nothing to heal, etc.

They do put far less emphasis on the damage side of the kit though. It's not that they absolutely hate having an expanded damage kit, it's more that they don't think much about it, it's just filler, something to press when there's nothing important to do.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Last I saw, in this thread even, the JP community was very anti-healer strike and we're against any kind of changes that would improve its dps rotation.

Could things have changed in the last few months? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it. They also don't like it when "gaijins" go over to their side of the forums for any reason.

Also, JP posting criticism on 2/5chan doesn't help when the Devs only see JP praising the braindead gameplay on the official forums.

If I recall correctly, they weren't against #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE per sec. The Japanese community was against the idea that adding damage rotations was the way to improve the state of healers. They don't want green damage dealers.

Overall, the Japanese community felt healers should be more relaxing to play than damage dealers and tanks. I have to say I agree with them on that point.

Our role depends largely on the actions of others. We restore health. As such, it would counterproductive to make healers intricate to play when the main focus of our job is decision making.

[MisterNublet]

If I recall correctly, they weren't against #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE per sec. The Japanese community was against the idea that adding damage rotations was the way to improve the state of healers. They don't want green damage dealers.

Overall, the Japanese community felt healers should be more relaxing to play than damage dealers and tanks. I have to say I agree with them on that point.

Our role depends largely on the actions of others. We restore health. As such, it would counterproductive to make healers intricate to play when the main focus of our job is decision making.

They don't want green damage dealers, but they also don't want to have to heal. What they really want is a role that they can get carried through content on while AFKing to watch anime on a second monitor.

They want the role to be completely and utterly braindead. Which they have accomplished, hence why they're against any kind of changes to the role.

This is why the trinity system is dead in this game and why we now have blue healers/damage dealers and red healers/mitigations, because CBU3 had to give away the healers function to other roles to cover for lazy healers.

Also, knowing when to dps and when to heal is part of a decision making process.

[ForsakenRoe]

Last time I checked, they are actually very against the state of the healer role, the problems they have with the role touch on some stuff we have problems with too, like being invalidated as a role, having nothing to heal, etc.

They do put far less emphasis on the damage side of the kit though. It's not that they absolutely hate having an expanded damage kit, it's more that they don't think much about it, it's just filler, something to press when there's nothing important to do.

That's a fairly understandable stance to have on it all, but it leads to me wondering 'So then, why don't we have systems that incentivize us to heal more, such as WOW's Heal Absorbs?' The argument of 'more damage buttons' versus 'more healing required' will rage on until the game dies, but what I expect everyone, JP EN and Martians alike, can agree on is 'getting 'nothing' is the worst possible option', but that seems to be what SE's trying to give us. No new damage buttons for the rotation, no more healing requirements. DT finally adds some damage actions, and they're the most 'walk on eggshells' approach possible, with two of them being useable only once every 2 minutes (SCH/ASTs), and all four having zero interplay with the rest of our kit. Is it too much to ask, for Psyche to at least trigger Kardia? Was it too much, for it to be 30s CD and 300p, instead of 60/600p?

Our role depends largely on the actions of others. We restore health. As such, it would counterproductive to make healers intricate to play when the main focus of our job is decision making.

Part of the way to handle this, I think, would be for the DPS side of things to 'help' with our Healing in various ways. Things like 'If you deal damage, you build a gauge that can be spent on a damage-neutral Healing move'. But, to make such a system not 'feel like it's forcing you to DPS', you could also have Healing build the gauge, and at a much faster rate. That way, if a player is using 'damage-negative Healing tools' like Medica, they're getting to the 'damage neutral Healing tool' faster, thereby helping them to keep their damage up

'Intricacy' is completely fine, on any Job, so long as it's 'optional' I think. BLM having Nonstandard is fine in my view, so long as Nonstandard's performance output is within an acceptable margin of the Standard rotation. The issue is, the playerbase has no nuance on the matter. Either you do the absolute perfect 'optimal rotation' and do maximum damage, or you're 'playing wrong'. For example, some people in SB felt they needed to learn TK rotation for MNK. I know a guy who was insistent on not learning it because he thought it was dumb, too much effort for not enough gain, etc. So he raided using the old 'standard' rotation and got Oranges anyway

'Intricacy' on Healers is entirely achievable, it just requires SE to intelligently balance the potencies of any new DPS additions. Here, my SGE ask:
Give us two new actions on SGE, Neuralgia and Myasthenia. One's a cone, one's a line AOE. They have 20s CD, and can hold up to 2 charges each. They deal 20p more than Dosis at any given level (so at max, that'd be 390p). When you use one, it applies a debuff of the same name to enemies hit, that reduces their autoattack damage by 3%. When you apply Myasthenia on a target suffering Neuralgia, or vice versa, the debuff's potency is increased to a 5% autoattack damage reduction effect, and the potency of the triggering attack is increased by 10p. This means that you'd want to, for maximum damage, alternate between the two actions (akin to something like Reaper's Enshroud, or MCH's OGCDs in Hypercharge).

These two actions would be used for optimizing (because they deal more damage), but are entirely ignoreable for the sake of enrage timers. Ignoring them both completely, for an entire 10min fight, would be a total loss of 30p, per spell, per 20s. So, 60p lost, a total of 30 times over the fight, is 1800p. Which sounds like a lot, until you realize that how many casts of Dosis that value is equal to. 5, five, casts of Dosis would total up to 1850p! Over 10mins that's absolutely nothing, Crit/DHit Variance on your Phlegmas could cost you more damage than that!

[Nadda]

They don't want green damage dealers, but they also don't want to have to heal. What they really want is a role that they can get carried through content on while AFKing to watch anime on a second monitor.

They want the role to be completely and utterly braindead. Which they have accomplished, hence why they're against any kind of changes to the role.

This is why the trinity system is dead in this game and why we now have blue healers/damage dealers and red healers/mitigations, because CBU3 had to give away the healers function to other roles to cover for lazy healers.

Also, knowing when to dps and when to heal is part of a decision making process.

This is why I think your cause might be better suited to getting the message of the Western player base translated and represented on Japanese forums.

Even now, I don’t necessarily agree with a lot of the Healer Strike points—especially as a Whitemage main (I’ve exclusively played Whitemage… as in, I hadn’t leveled any other jobs until Endwalker).

But even with my confidence in the devs, I do have this suspicion: they seem to be more receptive to their native-speaking audience than to the Western one, regardless of size. (Arguments aside on how bad a practice that may be, if true.)

Foreigners raising hell might not be the best approach. Obviously, it should be respectful. If someone could find a way to communicate this portion of the community’s message on our behalf, it could be fruitful.

Because, frankly, I think the community managers on the Western side are probably just collecting a paycheck. They likely don’t even understand the depth of sentiment we have here because it’s not being relayed properly.

Everywhere you look, you can find critique—even if you're not actively searching for it. I can’t believe it’s being ignored; it’s more likely that it’s just not being understood because no one’s relaying it back to the devs in a way they can digest.

Again, what else do people have to lose, other than potentially ruffling some feathers in the Japanese community? The Healstriker feathers have already been ruffled, after all—they didn’t draw first blood.

In any effort to make change, especially when you're trying to shake things up or spark a "Strike," sometimes you need to agitate a little to get your point across. If it’s done strategically, that agitation can serve as a wake-up call, even if it ruffles a few feathers along the way.