#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

The main difference between Healers and tanks is how fast, and frequent the mitigation windows happen. The fights are very well engineered to have the mit windows at specific points of the fight. If Tank had to mitigate at all times then the balance of mit spells vs attack spells would skew. In any case, Healers do have to heal a lot more often and thus have more tools to heal.

"For example, if we want to make healers classes that MUST dps, let's create synergies between heal cycles and dps cycles."
Not sure what synergy means for you and in which context but this lowkey exists already in the game. It is however tied to the burst window which happens at 2 minutes. it's the time when you have to press more than just glare.

I’m sorry what?

Healing cycles and DPS cycles synergy does not remotely mean “when you press your 1 different button in the 2 minute window you also will likely be healing a slightly harder to heal mechanic” (and I’m not even the one who wrote that) it’s means actually having a form of synergy between your healing an DPS kit because right now they are totally disconnected

As for tank mitigation you heal more than a tank mitigates but not remotely to the degree that there exists imbalance within the class kits. Healers don’t even need half the heals they have. Healer don’t need anywhere near as many healing buttons as they have

[Azurarok]

There is definitely in game representation we can play many jobs because certain NPC’s will respond to you in different ways if you play a job based on quests they were in and they all mention that you obtain abilities via a soul crystal and people comment you have more than one

That's what I mean. The dialogue adjusts itself based on what jobs you do have unlocked, which means the story doesn't hinge on you having all those jobs. You'd still be the WoL even if the only job stone you have is WHM's.

[Kohashi]

I’m sorry what?

Healing cycles and DPS cycles synergy does not remotely mean “when you press your 1 different button in the 2 minute window you also will likely be healing a slightly harder to heal mechanic” (and I’m not even the one who wrote that) it’s means actually having a form of synergy between your healing an DPS kit because right now they are totally disconnected

As for tank mitigation you heal more than a tank mitigates but not remotely to the degree that there exists imbalance within the class kits. Healers don’t even need half the heals they have. Healer don’t need anywhere near as many healing buttons as they have

in case you needed to have it pointed out, the second part was NOT addressed to you, only the first regarding tanks and healers.

Also, the healing is not exclusively for tanks and when they take damage but for the entire party. Sure, perhaps the entire kit is not needed when everyone plays optimally and they make little to no mistakes but hardly anyone fits that except a very small minority.

I'm not sure what content you do and which difficulty but the last time I checked, I wiped to PF UR 3 times in a row because people kept on fumbling. Mind you, this is the easiest UR ever too which adds to the hilarity of the situation. Also, this case is not like an outlier, every single week re-clears for savage have been a nightmare. Maybe I am just talking rubbish and I am just unlucky..lol

[Aravell]

Regarding the argument of healer vs tank damage:

If the displayed damage gap between healer and tank in other games is 30-40% but their healers also operate under the principle of expected damage loss due to spending actions on healing instead of damage, that would logically put them much closer in damage output than people think.

If let's say a healer in another game has the opportunity to spend 95% of their actions on their damage spells, that would probably put them much closer to the tank in terms of output.

Meanwhile, healers in XIV just arbitrarily do less damage than tanks for no discernible reason even though they both use a large majority of their GCDs on damage and most of their role responsibilities are done through damage-neutral means.

Most people try and argue that tanks do more damage because they have to keep aggro, but that's a weak reasoning because they could very easily just boost tank stance aggro generation by 20% after reducing damage output by 20% (example).

It's important to note that doing damage isn't stated to be the main role of either healers or tanks, so why do tanks just get special treatment with a fleshed out damage rotation and higher output?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I feel like the argument of wanting to have higher tank damage to keep aggro also falls flat when today's tank stance exists. Not to mention the recent addition to their AoE attacks which... idk. Do tanks even need that? I guess if you /<emote> more in dungeon than actually doing combat actions then... yeah. Lol.

Both instances shows that they certainly do not need that higher damage to keep a stable enmity.

[Calysto]

Most people try and argue that tanks do more damage because they have to keep aggro, but that's a weak reasoning because they could very easily just boost tank stance aggro generation by 20% after reducing damage output by 20% (example).

It is not needed anymore as Shadowstride and Trajectory now increase enmity without causing damage

[CaptainLagbeard]

Tanks don't actually need to do damage to generate Enmity... They could just as well remove most of their attacks and bring back Flash

While it wouldn't lead to good gameplay, that argument is invalid because of how Healers are.

[Azurarok]

It's pretty glaring that Variant Dungeons could invalidate roles with just a pair of skills that you could use for no real reason

[ForsakenRoe]

Regarding the argument of healer vs tank damage:

If the displayed damage gap between healer and tank in other games is 30-40% but their healers also operate under the principle of expected damage loss due to spending actions on healing instead of damage, that would logically put them much closer in damage output than people think.

If let's say a healer in another game has the opportunity to spend 95% of their actions on their damage spells, that would probably put them much closer to the tank in terms of output.

In the obvious example of 'other MMO', checking the logs for Normal mode of the raid (heavily outgeared at this point and most likely to have people with high parses just chadding and doing nothing but damage GCDs), the Healers are between 30-50% of the Tank damage, and that's bearing in mind that some of the healers (the top 3 results being MW Monk (by a large margin for some reason), Holy Paladin, Disc Priest in that order) all have either 'some amount of incentive to deal damage as part of their healing rotation', or in Disc's case, it's literally 'how they heal'.

Checking 'number of GCDs used on 'not damage' actions' for some runs, some high parse% examples have around 30% 'non damage' GCDs for a HPal, about 25% for a Disc Priest (they have to use some to apply Atonement), but a MW Monk had like, 7% of their GCDs spent on 'not damage', and in NM mode, MW was the closest to the Tanks, at around 50%. Healers there simply do less damage as a ratio of Tank potential, even in content where they can completely tunnelvision on damage, but it works fine there because for situations like levelling, soloing, etc, they are able to swap spec to a DPS spec to kill stuff and progress the story. Here in FFXIV, our issue is that every job needs to be able to clear the story, under the assumption that 'the player has only one job unlocked, and they chose a Healer', so our Healers need to be able to do as much damage as they do to make solo encounters etc. not take 10 minutes per mob

Again though, my take on the issue is 'I don't care if us Healers 10% behind, or 50% behind, or equal with Tank damage in FFXIV', because in a hypothetical world where we DO get buffed to the point where we do Tank levels of damage, what changes for us? That sluggish, monotonous, 7-8 minute solo instance in the story, now takes 5:30-6 minutes instead? That doesn't sound good, or even fix the issues. The monotony existing at all is the issue, not 'how long the monotony lasts'. I don't want 5-6 minutes of monotony, I don't want ANY monotony forced upon me! Making the monotony last less time is 'technically an improvement' (in that you get out of it faster) over the current form, yes, but surely it'd be better to... make it not monotonous in the first place, by adjusting our gameplay so that it's 7-8 minutes of fun gameplay for players of all skill levels? Also, bringing Healer damage up to Tank levels will just get the Tanks complaining that 'why do I have to do a rotation when the stupid WHM can just spam Glare and do the same DPS as me' like they did in SHB.

It's a 'solution' that doesn't really fix the underlying issue, and also runs the risk of causing animosity between players of certain Roles as an added bonus

Tanks don't actually need to do damage to generate Enmity... They could just as well remove most of their attacks and bring back Flash

It is a little odd to me, that some suggest that 'Healers should only heal, like the good old days in MMOs', which A: the 'good old days' included a point where your gameplay as a Holy Paladin was 'press Holy Light (Cure2) on the MT over and over (and it happens to deal splash healing to nearby allies)' which sounds awful, and B: Tanking at one point in the 'good old days' was 'Press Sunder Armour over and over to build a flat amount of Threat per press (like Flash but single target), and tab to each mob to Sunder it individually if you're in an AOE pull because Thunder Clap was terrible at Threat generation'. Somehow, we've got the conflicting stances that 'Healing should go backwards in design to those times', but 'Tanking should not, because those times were bad design and they hadn't worked out what they were doing yet'.

Additionally, some suggest 'Healers should only heal', with examples of gameplay that'd bring, such as 'needing to use more GCDs on healing, such that Healing GCDs are a higher percentage of your total casts than your Damage GCDs'. Or 'You would need to carefully manage your MP so you don't run out, by using more efficient healing options to conserve MP when you can (eg: actually utilizing Freecure?)' And this just sounds like 'make it like WOW: Cataclysm', which... to my understanding, didn't go so well for WOW when they tried it, back in the original release of Cataclysm

Lastly, I have experienced 'there's so much healing required of you, you won't even have time to deal damage' because of this in OSRS:

At Level 1 in the role (of which there are 5), you heal for 5 HP each time you use your healing potion flask on an ally. Each 'heal' instance can only occur once per 'tick' (actions are processed once per 0.6s), effectively giving you a GCD of 0.6s. Your flask can only hold 4 charges of 'healing', and must be refilled from a pool at the south of the arena when it runs out. The last wave of the minigame has a boss that summons adds (once per 6s, with a maximum of 4 adds active at once), each of which can hit you for up to 7 damage. Additionally, the boss itself can hit you for up to 13, and attacks everyone at once. For players who come in unprepared in terms of defences, trying to just get one run on each role done for a certain reward (a chestpiece we call the Fighter Torso, that boosts your melee damage a little bit), it's easy for them to get torn to shreds by the rapid attacks in the final wave.

I had a run where I was a Level 1 in the Healer Role (meaning I heal 5HP per 'GCD'), and our team had a guy who was very underlevelled, and very undergeared. Adamant Chestplate, Rune Platelegs, 43HP, we were basically doing a 'boosting run' for the guy but without anyone getting paid for the service. I had to spend almost all of my time frantically trying to keep this guy topped up as the Queen shot him (regularly hitting him for 12-13 per hit every 3 seconds or so), trying to keep myself alive, trying to keep my allies alive, and all of this at the same time as me needing to do my own Healer-specific part of the preparation of the Omega Egg to kill the Queen (Healers have to be given the eggs by the Collector, dunk the eggs in poison, then hand them off to the Attacker). I did, in fact, have to 'heal so much, I don't even have time to do my damage related actions'

I'll admit, it was fun in its own way, as a one-time run. But I was fully aware as I did it, that the run was a one-off, as completing that run would let me increase my Healer Role Level (meaning I'd heal 10 per GCD instead of 5), making all future runs easier. Trying to imagine that level of stress, every single run, of ANY content in FFXIV, even something like an EX roulette (instead of just super-high stuff like Week 1 Savage or Ultimate)? I don't think we'd be able to sustain a Healer playerbase if there's that much focus/skill demanded of the player, in all aspects of the game, everyone would get burned out so fast from how mentally taxing even doing our weekly tome grinds would be. Also I was completely drained after completing that run, so translating that to FFXIV terms it'd be 'I do one EX roulette and then I'm too mentally taxed to partake in any other content for the day'

[Dante131]

Speaking of WoW, DT made me try it out, and I’ve played several healing roles there by now. I actually find myself enjoying healing more in WoW than in FFXIV, and the simple reason is that I feel like I have a real purpose in the group. There’s only one scenario where a group wouldn’t need me as a healer in WoW, and that’s if it’s a full level 10 group, because scaling is a bit of a mess.

Here’s the thing: I always have plenty to do besides dealing a bit of damage with my skills. Sure, I still deal damage, and depending on the group, it’s more or less, but that’s not my main purpose. My primary role is curing diseases, healing HP, and buffing my team. That’s my purpose in WoW, with dealing damage being something I only do when there’s nothing else to handle.

A big plus is that there’s no tank class with a "Benediction" equivalent during trash pulls every 15 seconds. Sure, Death Knights can heal themselves once a minute like a god, but that’s it. It just feels more rewarding to be part of a group in WoW, and I kind of hate it because it constantly reminds me of how differently healers are treated, not just by the dev teams, but also by the communities.

I’ve had several experiences in WoW where the healer focused solely on healing, and you know what? Most groups are fine with it. They understand that without the healer, they’d die like flies. In FFXIV, it’s the complete opposite. It’s like, “Let’s get rid of the healer who isn’t spamming Gravity, Holy, Art of War, or whatever the Sage AoE is called, and just move on because Warrior is a better healer anyway.”