#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Dante131]

For example, if we want to make healers classes that MUST dps, let's create synergies between heal cycles and dps cycles.

One combo could, for example, unlock a group heal buff, while another could buff the solo heal.

A simple idea thrown in at the last minute, to show that thinking about dps rotation isn't necessarily a useless addition of extra buttons.

So the white mage lillys turned around ?

[Dante131]

Don't WoW's specs kinda allow healers and tanks to be much more focused on the role than FFXIV? If you want to be doing damage you just have a damaging mode. FFXIV our one PvE kit's supposed to apply everywhere PvE.

The WoL is also kinda written to be an absurdly strong fighter that can beat up anyone, but it doesn't really feel that way when you're mostly spamming glare to do it, whether your damage is scaled well or not.

Most things outside the dutyfinder are designed to be playable solo, whether that's "correct" for an mmo or not, and I want to be able to enjoy them with these jobs.

Nothing stops you from putting on another Job Stone in the overworld, right? Actually, isn’t the fact that the WoL can use all classes what makes them so powerful? So, outside of duties, there’s really nothing forcing you to spam Glare or am I misunderstanding something?

[Supersnow845]

Lily’s are just a garbage system because you are actively incentivised to overheal to achieve minor DPS gains and there is little to no choice with Lily’s.

Kardia if it wasn’t so underbaked would be a better example. If different spells triggered different kardia effects but didn’t meaningfully affect damage that sort of system would be better, like imagine if you casted a spell with a higher MP cost but it added a shield on top of kardia like seraphic veil does, it would be useful in phases of high autos but you wouldn’t want to spend the MP when the boss is doing mechanics

That’s just a super basic example but Lily’s are not a desirable goal

[Merrigan]

So the white mage lillys turned around ?

I was thinking more along the lines of replacing abilities with AOE / Solo abilities depending on your cycle. Once again, it's just an idea. Lilys depends on the number of heal you're making with certain abilities, it's not really the same thing. The ability in itself is... Frustrating, 'cause of the overheal it generates.

But otherwise, Supersnow is right: the same logic can be applied to dps. Hey, why have such a long DRG rotation? Might as well restrict it to a single button, eh

[Dante131]

Lily’s are just a garbage system because you are actively incentivised to overheal to achieve minor DPS gains and there is little to no choice with Lily’s.

Kardia if it wasn’t so underbaked would be a better example. If different spells triggered different kardia effects but didn’t meaningfully affect damage that sort of system would be better, like imagine if you casted a spell with a higher MP cost but it added a shield on top of kardia like seraphic veil does, it would be useful in phases of high autos but you wouldn’t want to spend the MP when the boss is doing mechanics

That’s just a super basic example but Lily’s are not a desirable goal

I never said it’s a desirable goal, definitely not!

[Dante131]

I was thinking more along the lines of replacing abilities with AOE / Solo abilities depending on your cycle. Once again, it's just an idea. Lilys depends on the number of heal you're making with certain abilities, it's not really the same thing. The ability in itself is... Frustrating, 'cause of the overheal it generates.

But otherwise, Supersnow is right: the same logic can be applied to dps. Hey, why have such a long DRG rotation? Might as well restrict it to a single button, eh

you would be shocked how many people wants a feature from SE which let them put the rota to 1 button and people already using nono tools for it

[ForsakenRoe]

Once again we circle back to the obvious solution: Have 111 be balanced via potency tuning to deal the vast majority of the damage output of the job, and have additional rotational complexities available for a miniscule potency gain for those who want to use it. Once again, I give this example for SCH:

Broil: 340p
Biolysis: 370p (30s)
Miasmalysis: 360p (24s)
Shadowflare: 350p (15s, AOE)

With this, pressing 111 and ignoring the DOTs entirely would be 99% of the damage output of the current DT SCH (and that's including the DOT in the DT version, so this would be even more 'casual friendly'), and it'd also be 98% of the effectiveness of playing the above potencies and perfectly refreshing every DOT on time, every time. Not a single piece of content would be locked off (DPS check-wise) from a player who chooses to 111 their way through the game, even Ultimates would remain just as clearable as they are now.

As long as additional actions are made to be a very low gain vs their respective 'filler' actions, they can safely be 'ignored' by anyone who just wants to play the game and is not interested in optimization. But for those players who DO want to optimize as much as possible, the additional actions would provide extra gameplay decisions. For example, say WHM has a new action called Banish 3, with a potency of 380 (40p more than Glare 3), and a CD of 15s. Ignoring this action when it's ready and using a Glare instead, is functionally an average loss of 6.66p per GCD, completely inconsequential in terms of 'beating the enrage timer'. But, holding onto the action for a couple GCDs, incurring that 6.66p penalty on purpose, and then being able to use Banish as a mobility action where you'd otherwise be forced to use an early Dia refresh (which currently deals a mere 75p), results in the loss of holding the action turning into a massive gain

Nothing stops you from putting on another Job Stone in the overworld, right? Actually, isn’t the fact that the WoL can use all classes what makes them so powerful? So, outside of duties, there’s really nothing forcing you to spam Glare or am I misunderstanding something?

Not everyone wants to level a second Job, just to avoid 'pressing my damage rotation in overworld content is boring'

[Azurarok]

Nothing stops you from putting on another Job Stone in the overworld, right? Actually, isn’t the fact that the WoL can use all classes what makes them so powerful? So, outside of duties, there’s really nothing forcing you to spam Glare or am I misunderstanding something?

Outside having to level another job, not really. The writing doesn't suggest the WoL can use all classes in the actual story though, as much as the inaccurate opening movies try to.
There's also no current job that plays the same way the healer jobs had in the past/potentially could, though.

[Supersnow845]

Outside having to level another job, not really. The writing doesn't suggest the WoL can use all classes in the actual story though, as much as the inaccurate opening movies try to.
There's also no current job that plays the same way the healer jobs had in the past/potentially could, though.

There is definitely in game representation we can play many jobs because certain NPC’s will respond to you in different ways if you play a job based on quests they were in and they all mention that you obtain abilities via a soul crystal and people comment you have more than one

[Kohashi]

You are right how do the DPS and the tanks manage to be somewhat engaging when mashing more than one button is basically the same as mashing one button

The main difference between Healers and tanks is how fast, and frequent the mitigation windows happen. The fights are very well engineered to have the mit windows at specific points of the fight. If Tank had to mitigate at all times then the balance of mit spells vs attack spells would skew. In any case, Healers do have to heal a lot more often and thus have more tools to heal.

"For example, if we want to make healers classes that MUST dps, let's create synergies between heal cycles and dps cycles."
Not sure what synergy means for you and in which context but this lowkey exists already in the game. It is however tied to the burst window which happens at 2 minutes. it's the time when you have to press more than just glare.