#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kes13a]

well, if someone is bad at healing they should learn to be better no?

why are we so afraid of people failing.. this is part of process

thats the problem. the people developing the game, the people who's feedback they listen to, and some who come into this thread... are the ones who feel so fragility about failing at something. I mean, seriously, we get people like "think about the developmentally impaired or handicapped people who want to play!" get shot down by people who are actually handicapped who say "bro, I didnt ask for easy...".

the people against the idea of making the jobs better.... have a very mobile sliding scale of reasoning of why it shouldnt be done, and most of it contradictory, mostly based on the fact that they dont want to have to learn their job

[BabyYoda]

thats the problem. the people developing the game, the people who's feedback they listen to, and some who come into this thread... are the ones who feel so fragility about failing at something. I mean, seriously, we get people like "think about the developmentally impaired or handicapped people who want to play!" get shot down by people who are actually handicapped who say "bro, I didnt ask for easy...".

the people against the idea of making the jobs better.... have a very mobile sliding scale of reasoning of why it shouldnt be done, and most of it contradictory, mostly based on the fact that they dont want to have to learn their job

I never seen this type of mentality before in any game,

in Monster hunter I played 50 hours with greatsword class to at least be "good",

but if you ask me is the class hard? no it is way easier than most classes but it requires you to put your mind to it..

I dont understand these devs or even players who ask jobs to be braindead

[ForsakenRoe]

the people against the idea of making the jobs better.... have a very mobile sliding scale of reasoning of why it shouldnt be done, and most of it contradictory, mostly based on the fact that they dont want to have to learn their job

One of the most vocal oppositions I got to a rework to WHM I made (or more accurately, the prototype version from over a year ago), effectively boiled down to 'you made the DOT duration shorter, I don't like DOTs, so I don't support this idea'. Said rework also includes ideas that make Thin Air better, or one to give WHM access to lower level versions of actions (eg Divine Seal, which later upgrades into Temperance) to make early game more interesting, or giving WHM Protect as a 60s CD party-mitigation tool (which upgrades later into Plenary, which would have its current effect plus the mit). But nope, 'Aero/Dia duration reduced to 12s, potency adjusted to compensate' was the line in the sand for that one player.

I expect SE has to deal with similar hardline stances from players on the regular. But in opposing an idea because we disagree with one aspect of it (in this case, DOT duration adjustments), we lose out on all the good things that could also come with it. 'Perfect is the enemy of good', and all that. What should be done, instead, is to try and 'mitigate' the disagreeable aspect's influence on the gameplay. In the case of the DOT, for example, perhaps the potency could be tweaked, such that failing to refresh it exactly on time, each time (of which there would be more refresh moments per minute, with a shorter duration), is less potency lost compared to currently. As it stands, Dia is 825p over its full duration, including the initial hit. Lowering the damage per tick from 75, to something less ridiculous, and putting some of the damage elsewhere (either in a different part of the damage kit, or frontloading more of it) reduces how punished the player is for missing a tick. Additionally, moving damage into the initial cast of the spell reduces the punishment the player endures, should they opt to use an early refresh for mobility.

And of course, the more different DOTs a healer can use (cough SCH), the more evenly between them the total DOT potency can be divided, making the punishment for dropping one even lower. Heck, we can even make the 'gain of using a DOT vs just using that GCD on another Broil' so small, that it's inconsequential for clearing any content in the game, and exists only as something for optimizers to optimize around (like how we don't 'have' to put Misery in raidbuffs, but it is a nice little boost)

[GartredZW]

I'll play devil's advocate a bit and say that those sorts of players have a point, just not in the way they think they do.
I think we all have an intuitive sense of how we think our job should play. What we think about when we imagine our warrior of light in canon doing all these cool moves and abilities like an action movie or anime. For some people, it's way different than others.
If I were to redesign white mage, it wouldn't center around the Dots being lower duration, it would be by making the core GCDs more varied with less of a focus on the dot. Maybe that's just me as I don't play White Mage, but I would think it could play as a sort of foil for Black Mage, with a similar sort of spend and replenish style rotation (not using MP) where the Dot is just something to break up the rotation and keep you thinking on your toes. (RIP Sharpcast)
But yeah, like I said I don't play White Mage. Maybe that's not what people think of when they want to play the class. Dots and timers seems more like a Scholar or Astrologian thing to me.

The healers are all so barebones in damage that anything would be welcome. that's what I'm thinking first and foremost. If they make Scholar more interesting in a way I don't like, well I just hope that at least one healer becomes something I do like so I can go play that instead. Of course, I'd like for my favorite healer to also be my favorite to play after a rework, but at this point I'll take what I can get. (even if that means I have to retire my running joke about hating White Mage.)

[ForsakenRoe]

If I were to redesign white mage, it wouldn't center around the Dots being lower duration, it would be by making the core GCDs more varied with less of a focus on the dot.

For sure, we all have different 'mental images' of what our ideal version of the job is. For example, I would have the DOT be lower duration in order to make it feel more 'bursty' compared to the more lingering effect of a 30s Biolysis on SCH, and to also respect the 10 years of design where WHM's had Aero as a DOT. It could, however, just as easily be a strong GCD that does all of its damage all at once with a separate CD (but that would step on the toes of another action I'd add)

The question is, taking WHM as the example, how many people have the mental image that this WHM is their 'ideal version' of WHM, compared to what I expect is the more likely situation, that people just think 'this is how WHM is, no point thinking about it any more than that'

[Jidka]

To me, the ideal WHM is a glass canon with strong and long casting heals and damage spells but few mobility.

How would you describe WHM as he is now ?
I've read people describing WHM as weaker and less interesting AST.

[Supersnow845]

To me, the ideal WHM is a glass canon with strong and long casting heals and damage spells but few mobility.

How would you describe WHM as he is now ?
I've read people describing WHM as weaker and less interesting AST.

So basically ShB WHM

Yeah unfortunately people couldn’t figure out that Lilys=weave space so now we have “bad AST” that is current WHM

[Aravell]

So basically ShB WHM

Yeah unfortunately people couldn’t figure out that Lilys=weave space so now we have “bad AST” that is current WHM

I don’t think people couldn't figure out that it's weave space. I think people looked at lilies back then and said "Ew, this loses me damage" then threw the lily spells off their hotbar.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t think people couldn't figure out that it's weave space. I think people looked at lilies back then and said "Ew, this loses me damage" then threw the lily spells off their hotbar.

Proceeds to lose even more damage to clipping assize

Checkmate roulette mains

[Aravell]

I imagine one's "ideal version" also hits a snag if someone wants job fantasy/lore in there.

Reminder that White Mages were the opposing rival force to Black Mages in an actual war, or that Scholars were the core member of an entire nation's military unit that likewise made Black Mages think twice about conquering them. Now look at them... heals that go unneeded and DPS you could manage with an auto-clicker. It's like those meme pictures comparing a majestic wolf to a pug in a silly hat, lol.

Funnily enough, you don't actually need a super complex job kit to solidify lore identity within gameplay.

Let's take WHM for example, they could get really high potency on their attack spells because they're said to be equal to the BLMs, but to balance that destructive power, ALL their heals are on the GCD (but also very powerful).

Or let's take SCH for example, they could get some buff fields to place or special stratagem as they're meant to be a tactician (not a fairy mage), then their DoTs could have debilitating debuffs tied to them, like healing down or slow or heavy, which, while not being useful in challenging content, do provide flavour and identity.

It's also worth noting that SE nailed job identity according to lore before ShB. WHM's Holy was one of the strongest AoE spells in the game, MNK was a fast brawler that ramps up in speed but stalls when there's nothing to hit, WAR hit really hard in damage stance but was required to lose damage to access a powerful heal+mit skill. Every job had strong identity and it's unfortunate that the team threw that away in favour of chasing the ever elusive "perfectly balanced game".