7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[Ometoch]

Venturing onto the official forum for the first time in ages to add my voice to the crowd. DRG is a job whose identity is tied up in weaving oGCDs, and the Nastrond change makes our burst feel super hollow.

This change honestly makes me wonder if anyone on the dev team actually likes playing DRG and understands what's appealing about it. It feels like a change that's meant to make the job more appealing to people who don't play DRG by sanding off a "rough edge", but I really don't think that's a good approach since it makes it less fun for people who like the oGCD-focused style of DRG and probably isn't going to significantly change the opinions of people who main other jobs already anyway.

We shouldn't be turning every job into mush to address the complaints of people who don't like it when they're leveling it up to the new max level only to put it away for the rest of the expansion.

[HikariKurosawa]

Even without 3x nastrond, and prior to getting starcross, the burst window is still busy. Call it a skill issue all you want, but the reality is it's just how it feels subjectively. I'm not talking about the difficulty of it, but the feeling of execution itself.

It's a good level of busy now, but it is objectively busy. Before it was just so busy that I didn't want to play the game, now it feels like a well designed product that is actually something I'd like to engage with.

Speak for yourselves and only yourselves when you say things like "it's meant to appeal to people who don't play dragoon" or "who asked for this?". Stop acting like you're the authority and only opinions that matter. Extremely entitled and embarrassing behavior. Less use of "we", more use of "me/I".

[HeavenlyArmed]

Even without 3x nastrond, and prior to getting starcross, the burst window is still busy. Call it a skill issue all you want, but the reality is it's just how it feels subjectively. I'm not talking about the difficulty of it, but the feeling of execution itself.

It's a good level of busy now, but it is objectively busy. Before it was just so busy that I didn't want to play the game, now it feels like a well designed product that is actually something I'd like to engage with.

Speak for yourselves and only yourselves when you say things like "it's meant to appeal to people who don't play dragoon" or "who asked for this?". Stop acting like you're the authority and only opinions that matter. Extremely entitled and embarrassing behavior. Less use of "we", more use of "me/I".

Okay, the last time I'm going to engage with you, but the counterevidence is all around you here. Look at how many people have said "I've never posted on the forums before, but came here to add my voice to those who are upset about this." Look at how this is by far the most active English thread about job design. Clearly, there is a substantial "we" who share this opinion. You don't? That's fine, go start a thread talking about how much you love the changes and see how much traction it gets. I'm sure you and the one other person in this whole thread who has defended the changes will have a great time talking between yourselves.

But let's also be clear about how busy the job is and has been. Right now at level 100 the job is less busy than it was at level 90 during Endwalker. During a two-minute burst window you have 9-11 OGCDs to weave vs 11-13. You're pre-Starcross, so you can take off an additional one. At level 90 currently you can get through your entire burst window with only one double weave in some situations and that's totally optimal. If you double-weave everything then half your burst window is spent just doing your basic GCD rotation with no OGCDs. And it only gets slower the earlier you go. I'm not saying the job needs to be as OGCD heavy during burst at level 100 as it was before the change, which btw is exactly +1 OGCD compared to EW DRG. But there were ways that could have been done that don't make those early levels feel as much worse as they do, and I hope that in the near future they opt to revert the Natrond change and instead put in place one of those alternatives.

And for those who want to check my math, here's a pastebin where I list out all of the OGCD usage during two-minute buff windows: https://pastebin.com/4aPke9Ks
Keep in mind that for one-minute windows you also remove Dragonfire and anything related to it as well as Life Surges at 80 and below.

[HikariKurosawa]

Okay, the last time I'm going to engage with you, but the counterevidence is all around you here. Look at how many people have said "I've never posted on the forums before, but came here to add my voice to those who are upset about this." Look at how this is by far the most active English thread about job design. Clearly, there is a substantial "we" who share this opinion. You don't? That's fine, go start a thread talking about how much you love the changes and see how much traction it gets. I'm sure you and the one other person in this whole thread who has defended the changes will have a great time talking between yourselves.

But let's also be clear about how busy the job is and has been. Right now at level 100 the job is less busy than it was at level 90 during Endwalker. During a two-minute burst window you have 10-12 OGCDs to weave vs 11-13. You're pre-Starcross, so you can take off an additional one. At level 90 currently you can get through your entire burst window with only one double weave in some situations and that's totally optimal. If you double-weave everything then half your burst window is spent just doing your basic GCD rotation with no OGCDs. And it only gets slower the earlier you go. I'm not saying the job needs to be as OGCD heavy during burst at level 100 as it was before the change, which btw is exactly +1 OGCD compared to EW DRG. But there were ways that could have been done that don't make those early levels feel as much worse as they do, and I hope that in the near future they opt to revert the Natrond change and instead put in place one of those alternatives.

And for those who want to check my math, here's a pastebin where I list out all of the OGCD usage during two-minute buff windows: https://pastebin.com/pbpSwszc
Keep in mind that for one-minute windows you also remove Dragonfire and anything related to it as well as Life Surges at 80 and below.

I mean it's fine to feel that way, but that's just not how the devs want the game to play. I agree with the devs, not the crybabies on the forums. Also no, I'm not going to make my own thread and let this one become an echo chamber of complaints. Sorry kid.

[CidHeiral]

Keep your eyes on the prize, people.

[mallleable]

I think they don't even need to fully get rid of Life Surge, just get rid of the damage crit, and make it a flat cure potency off weapon skills delivered. DRG keeps the button, but it would now be removed from the damage rotation. Then bring back triple Nastronds.

[AstralSkye]

I mean it's fine to feel that way, but that's just not how the devs want the game to play. I agree with the devs, not the crybabies on the forums. Also no, I'm not going to make my own thread and let this one become an echo chamber of complaints. Sorry kid.

I think it's crazy work that a thread of 99.9% DRG players has not agreed with a single one of your opinions. All of this coming from a lv92 dragoon who didn't even try the full rotational burst with SC is even crazier.
As I said, WHM is right there. Much more inline with your skill ceiling.

[HikariKurosawa]

I think it's crazy work that a thread of 99.9% DRG players has not agreed with a single one of your opinions. All of this coming from a lv92 dragoon who didn't even try the full rotational burst with SC is even crazier.
As I said, WHM is right there. Much more inline with your skill ceiling.

There are like 10-20 people trying to create an echo chamber of disapproval in this thread. Most people who are happy about the game spend their free time playing it, not whinging on the forums.

Like I said too, it's not about difficulty, it's about how the job feels. This game is not hard. Not at any level of play.

[jonimated]

Most people who are happy about the game spend their free time playing it, not whinging on the forums.

You can't possibly know that. You're just making things up and claiming them as fact to support your unhinged stance. You're being told from all sides here that there is a problem, and you're choosing to stick your fingers in your ears and call it an echo chamber simply because you disagree. It's classic "I'm not crazy everyone else is crazy" behavior and it's honestly embarrassing. You don't even have to take this weird stance. You can simply say you like how it is and move on, but you're choosing to go so much farther by telling everyone else they are wrong. It's pointless attention seeking at it's finest.

On top of all that, what many others have already pointed out, you're offering your opinion on something you currently don't have the full picture of. You're only level 92. You don't have the full kit and the highest level of DT content you could possibly have done at this point is a single dungeon. You're rendering a verdict on book you haven't read yet.

At this point it really seems like you're just saying words that you know. You keep saying things, but haven't backed any of it up. Grow up.

[HikariKurosawa]

You can't possibly know that. You're just making things up and claiming them as fact to support your unhinged stance. You're being told from all sides here that there is a problem, and you're choosing to stick your fingers in your ears and call it an echo chamber simply because you disagree. It's classic "I'm not crazy everyone else is crazy" behavior and it's honestly embarrassing. You don't even have to take this weird stance. You can simply say you like how it is and move on, but you're choosing to go so much farther by telling everyone else they are wrong. It's pointless attention seeking at it's finest.

On top of all that, what many others have already pointed out, you're offering your opinion on something you currently don't have the full picture of. You're only level 92. You don't have the full kit and the highest level of DT content you could possibly have done at this point is a single dungeon. You're rendering a verdict on book you haven't read yet.

At this point it really seems like you're just saying words that you know. You keep saying things, but haven't backed any of it up. Grow up.

Nobody is crazy here, it's just weird that you think your perspective matters.