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  1. #161
    Player
    ElysiumDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    290
    Character
    Mimilla Milla
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 92
    Not a Dragoon main by any means, but someone who's recently grown fond of the job after my main got a bunch of jank added to their kit.

    As someone who those changes were probably aimed at, I get WHY the Nastrond changes were made, but they were definitely going to be controversial.

    I think it was probably the best of two bad options. I've always found Life Surge to be the more annoying ability to weave in, but it being a form of 'skill expression' would've arguably been the more controversial skill to change or remove.
    (3)

  2. #162
    Player
    primarisgoazrr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    58
    Character
    Philippos Berean
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    The change is strange, like part of me kinda gets it, for me I had to double weave all the ogcds just to fit burst, which was fine unless my ping was 6ft under. At lvl 100 it does feel so bad honestly, but it’s definitely a bit awkward at lower lvls though. It kinda feels like pre DT Drg where Nastrond had a cooldown, except the other 2 are gone now. In my opinion I think they should give us the 3 Nastronds and give it the Enchanted Moulinet treatment, it’d probably look/feel a bit better that way. They should also repurpose Mirage Dive into a gcd that you can use after 2 or 3 High Jumps, kind of like the old scales or Wrymwind Thrust
    (1)

  3. #163
    Player
    Nikoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Location
    Rival Wings Fan Club
    Posts
    331
    Character
    Niko'to Seleuca
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    STOP responding to Hikari.
    (18)
    Give me more Keeper of the Moon rep!

  4. #164
    Player
    HikariKurosawa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    746
    Character
    Hikaru Kurosawa
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 95
    I think the only changes they really should make after all of this are 1) repurpose LIFE surge into a purely defensive skill that is used in response to taking damage, so maybe a dragoon can stay in the fray for non-lethal damage instances and immediately recover a significant portion of hp.

    2) make it so mirage dive ready only has like a 10 second duration so optimization is even more streamlined.

    Other than that though, dragoon feels pretty perfect now. The only two complaints I have are with life surge and the idea of delaying mirage dive so you can fit two in burst. Janky and unintuitive stuff like that is better left out of the game, lowering the duration of dive ready to like 10 seconds would probably solve the issue.

    Low level dragoon is another story, but that's something that can be solved easily. It only really matters starting at level 70 because that's when ultimate raids start, but also dragoon at level 70 is already fun so I don't really get the complaints. Maybe the people complaining should do ultimate raids? Below that just maybe add AoE rotation sooner, I don't think it really matters though. How often are you going to be doing content below level 70 realistically speaking?
    (0)

  5. #165
    Player
    HeavenlyArmed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    174
    Character
    C'thuuko Tohka
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon View Post
    Not a Dragoon main by any means, but someone who's recently grown fond of the job after my main got a bunch of jank added to their kit.

    As someone who those changes were probably aimed at, I get WHY the Nastrond changes were made, but they were definitely going to be controversial.

    I think it was probably the best of two bad options. I've always found Life Surge to be the more annoying ability to weave in, but it being a form of 'skill expression' would've arguably been the more controversial skill to change or remove.
    That's kind of why it wasn't my first thought as something to suggest dropping instead, but looking at the other replies at least in this thread, and I've seen it pretty commonly expressed by people in other forums as well, I've gotten the impression at this point that people don't really care for that "skill expression" and would much rather have lost Life Surge, or converted it to not being a damage increase and just being another self-heal, than lost the extra presses of Nastrond.

    Quote Originally Posted by primarisgoazrr View Post
    The change is strange, like part of me kinda gets it, for me I had to double weave all the ogcds just to fit burst, which was fine unless my ping was 6ft under. At lvl 100 it does feel so bad honestly, but it’s definitely a bit awkward at lower lvls though. It kinda feels like pre DT Drg where Nastrond had a cooldown, except the other 2 are gone now. In my opinion I think they should give us the 3 Nastronds and give it the Enchanted Moulinet treatment, it’d probably look/feel a bit better that way. They should also repurpose Mirage Dive into a gcd that you can use after 2 or 3 High Jumps, kind of like the old scales or Wrymwind Thrust
    Personally I don't like the idea of adding any GCD that's part of the rotation some of the time but not always. Part of DRG's identity has basically always been that in terms of the GCD rotation it is a set sequence of skills that never changes, even all the way back in ARR when it was HT-IDC-Phleb-TTT-HT-TTT-Phleb-IDC-HT-TTT-Phleb-TTT. But to the larger point of it feeling awkward at lower levels, that's been my point since I started the thread. As someone who does a lot of UCoB and DSR, I would like the job to be fun and engaging at level 70 and level 90, and the three uses of Nastrond did that for me. Now that it's gone, I find myself bored playing the job even in ultimates. Level 70 even if you single-weave everything you run out of OGCDs to press for your burst halfway through your buff timers, which feels deeply unsatisfying.
    (4)
    Last edited by HeavenlyArmed; 11-17-2024 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Forgot to reply to someone

  6. #166
    Player
    seolhyun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    166
    Character
    Sana Minatozaki
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon View Post
    Not a Dragoon main by any means, but someone who's recently grown fond of the job after my main got a bunch of jank added to their kit.

    As someone who those changes were probably aimed at, I get WHY the Nastrond changes were made, but they were definitely going to be controversial.

    I think it was probably the best of two bad options. I've always found Life Surge to be the more annoying ability to weave in, but it being a form of 'skill expression' would've arguably been the more controversial skill to change or remove.
    my thinking is they wanted to reduce something but since people freak out every time a skill is removed they just reduced the button you press 3x in a row instead of straight up deleting something like mirage.
    (0)

  7. #167
    Player
    Aco505's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    884
    Character
    Aco Nale
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Life Surge and Mirage Dive are always at the forefront of what people want removed from DRG, even though these are right now the only things that require some planning or thought (if you do double MD), alongside WWT.
    (4)
    Last edited by Aco505; 11-17-2024 at 05:37 AM.

  8. #168
    Player
    HikariKurosawa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    746
    Character
    Hikaru Kurosawa
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 95
    Of all the things to remove, mirage dive should never be taken away from the job. It is probably the most iconic animation the job has. You do the iconic high jump and then it's like the soul of a dragon echoes your impact on the target. High jump without mirage dive would feel absolutely empty. I think they really should remove the viability of double mirage dive though, because it means that optimal play is separating mirage dive from high jump in terms of game feel. It no longer feels like an echo of the jump, but becomes its own thing.

    I think that making life surge purely defensive like I outlined is a really cool way of giving dragoon a defensive on top of reducing the business of the burst window. A cool interaction they could add to this change would be for it to grant a scale if damage is taken and increase the amount of scales we're able to hold at a time to 3. It would be similar to samurai's third eye, but different enough that I wouldn't count it as homogenization. No damage reduction, just raw healing + a scale upon taking damage. To me this is much more interesting than the current iteration of life surge and I think most people would agree. The idea of standing in a non-lethal AoE(or just using it during a raidwide, but this is wasteful and less consistent because healers deal with raidwides) is fun because you are being rewarded for greed, as the scale would make it optimal to do this as often as possible.
    (0)

  9. #169
    Player
    mallleable's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,318
    Character
    Malia Tri'el
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    I actually think they should further expand on Mirage Dive as a mechanic. Like what if they put every jump on the GCD, and every jump procs Mirage Dive which is an oGCD version of the jump that was just executed, and maybe doesn't displace your character like a regular jump. More jumps per jump.
    (2)

  10. #170
    Player
    CidHeiral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    1,624
    Character
    Cid Heiral
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    They should just make it build dragon eyes again and give you both of them for free at the start of a fight like they do with other jobs. Delaying life windows wasn't super intuitive for a new player but the route they chose was like stubbing your toe and the doctor amputates your leg.
    (12)

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