Thread: 7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

Okay, the last time I'm going to engage with you, but the counterevidence is all around you here. Look at how many people have said "I've never posted on the forums before, but came here to add my voice to those who are upset about this." Look at how this is by far the most active English thread about job design. Clearly, there is a substantial "we" who share this opinion. You don't? That's fine, go start a thread talking about how much you love the changes and see how much traction it gets. I'm sure you and the one other person in this whole thread who has defended the changes will have a great time talking between yourselves.

But let's also be clear about how busy the job is and has been. Right now at level 100 the job is less busy than it was at level 90 during Endwalker. During a two-minute burst window you have 9-11 OGCDs to weave vs 11-13. You're pre-Starcross, so you can take off an additional one. At level 90 currently you can get through your entire burst window with only one double weave in some situations and that's totally optimal. If you double-weave everything then half your burst window is spent just doing your basic GCD rotation with no OGCDs. And it only gets slower the earlier you go. I'm not saying the job needs to be as OGCD heavy during burst at level 100 as it was before the change, which btw is exactly +1 OGCD compared to EW DRG. But there were ways that could have been done that don't make those early levels feel as much worse as they do, and I hope that in the near future they opt to revert the Natrond change and instead put in place one of those alternatives.

And for those who want to check my math, here's a pastebin where I list out all of the OGCD usage during two-minute buff windows: https://pastebin.com/4aPke9Ks
Keep in mind that for one-minute windows you also remove Dragonfire and anything related to it as well as Life Surges at 80 and below.

Just wanted to note that I updated the pastebin link in this post, and that actually the job is less busy at 100 than I had originally stated. But while I'm here I'll also show how overall busy DRG is with a different pastebin, this one going over raw APM numbers for all of the physical dps in M4S at some of the fastest clears. https://pastebin.com/T8cWrhCn

Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

Just wanted to note that I updated the pastebin link in this post, and that actually the job is less busy at 100 than I had originally stated.

You're actually wrong though. Pre-7.1 it had 15 oGCD for opener and 2 minute burst, now it has 13 after you subtract the 2 nastrond. It's the same amount oGCD as endwalker, only more frequently and during the opener, while also having more button diversity.

https://i.imgur.com/KstklRQ.png

There are limits to how disingenuous people should be when pushing their own weird narratives.

Reading your pastebin is weird too, you say level 70 has 5 oGCD when it actually has 8? What is your logic? 1) Lance Charge, 2) Battle Litany, 3) Geirskogul, 4) Nastrond, 5) High Jump, 6) Mirage Dive, 7) Dragonfire Dive, 8) Life Surge.

Just weird all around.

Even if we exclude buffs for some reason, DT at 100 still has 12 oGCD, yet you say it has 9-11? Just weird logic.

Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

Not a Dragoon main by any means, but someone who's recently grown fond of the job after my main got a bunch of jank added to their kit.

As someone who those changes were probably aimed at, I get WHY the Nastrond changes were made, but they were definitely going to be controversial.

I think it was probably the best of two bad options. I've always found Life Surge to be the more annoying ability to weave in, but it being a form of 'skill expression' would've arguably been the more controversial skill to change or remove.

That's kind of why it wasn't my first thought as something to suggest dropping instead, but looking at the other replies at least in this thread, and I've seen it pretty commonly expressed by people in other forums as well, I've gotten the impression at this point that people don't really care for that "skill expression" and would much rather have lost Life Surge, or converted it to not being a damage increase and just being another self-heal, than lost the extra presses of Nastrond.

Originally Posted by primarisgoazrr

The change is strange, like part of me kinda gets it, for me I had to double weave all the ogcds just to fit burst, which was fine unless my ping was 6ft under. At lvl 100 it does feel so bad honestly, but it’s definitely a bit awkward at lower lvls though. It kinda feels like pre DT Drg where Nastrond had a cooldown, except the other 2 are gone now. In my opinion I think they should give us the 3 Nastronds and give it the Enchanted Moulinet treatment, it’d probably look/feel a bit better that way. They should also repurpose Mirage Dive into a gcd that you can use after 2 or 3 High Jumps, kind of like the old scales or Wrymwind Thrust

Personally I don't like the idea of adding any GCD that's part of the rotation some of the time but not always. Part of DRG's identity has basically always been that in terms of the GCD rotation it is a set sequence of skills that never changes, even all the way back in ARR when it was HT-IDC-Phleb-TTT-HT-TTT-Phleb-IDC-HT-TTT-Phleb-TTT. But to the larger point of it feeling awkward at lower levels, that's been my point since I started the thread. As someone who does a lot of UCoB and DSR, I would like the job to be fun and engaging at level 70 and level 90, and the three uses of Nastrond did that for me. Now that it's gone, I find myself bored playing the job even in ultimates. Level 70 even if you single-weave everything you run out of OGCDs to press for your burst halfway through your buff timers, which feels deeply unsatisfying.