Thread: 7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

I thought the release of new expansions would always make jobs more complex, as the level cap increases by 10 and everyone gets new skills. It seems that time is long gone from this game. Every job is eventually going through the same process. VPR lasted like what, 2 weeks?

Yoshi-P himself said MMO players like feeling more powerful when they level up, but current job design feels completely disconnected to this statement.

Originally Posted by brinn12

I thought the release of new expansions would always make jobs more complex, as the level cap increases by 10 and everyone gets new skills. It seems that time is long gone from this game. Every job is eventually going through the same process. VPR lasted like what, 2 weeks?

Yoshi-P himself said MMO players like feeling more powerful when they level up, but current job design feels completely disconnected to this statement.

That's not feasible game design for most people. It's inevitable that there will be a sizeable amount of people complaining, but the vast majority will want the game to taper out in busyness because it becomes unmanageable game design. If they continued to add complexity and busyness to the job design, encounter design would have to be completely watered down as a result.

Pretty much have to replace abilities and rework from now on, or prune and make new additions. Like taking out 2 nastrond and in the future life surge gives them room to add in my suggestion of high jump/mirage dive resetting cooldown during LotD and having upgraded versions. This would mean more oGCD variety and more jumping during our burst windows without bloating the input busyness.

At the end of the day, since people have this unrealistic expectation of jobs becoming increasingly complex every single expansion, they are going to end up disappointed. It's important to have realistic expectations if you want to avoid disappointment. Otherwise your future with this game is going to be pretty dour.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

That's not feasible game design for most people. It's inevitable that there will be a sizeable amount of people complaining, but the vast majority will want the game to taper out in busyness because it becomes unmanageable game design. If they continued to add complexity and busyness to the job design, encounter design would have to be completely watered down as a result.

Pretty much have to replace abilities and rework from now on, or prune and make new additions. Like taking out 2 nastrond and in the future life surge gives them room to add in my suggestion of high jump/mirage dive resetting cooldown during LotD and having upgraded versions. This would mean more oGCD variety and more jumping during our burst windows without bloating the input busyness.

At the end of the day, since people have this unrealistic expectation of jobs becoming increasingly complex every single expansion, they are going to end up disappointed. It's important to have realistic expectations if you want to avoid disappointment. Otherwise your future with this game is going to be pretty dour.

I don't even want it to get more and more complex, I just don't want it getting more and more simplified. Going into EW from ShB the job got simpler, between the 2 minute meta and the removal of Mirage Dives from Spineshatter, it was very straightforward to line up Life windows with buffs, and all they really added was charges that forced you to hold spineshatter for 2mins and Wyrmwind, which doesn't require a ton of thought. Then in DT they remove Mirage Dive's interaction entirely, give us basically the same number of buttons to press meaning there is no added complexity, and now they decide it's still not enough even though this was already the simplest the job had been since the Stormblood? And again to the point of the original post, we're all sitting here talking about level 100 when playing the job in any content below level 90 is a total snoozefest after this change. You run out of buttons after 3 GCDs at 70. You run out of buttons after 4 GCDs at 80. At 90 you can get away with only doing one double-weave in your entire burst and still fit everything in. And so much of the game's content is stuff that isn't at level 100, to leave jobs in such a dull state for all that content is a serious oversight from the devs.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

I don't even want it to get more and more complex, I just don't want it getting more and more simplified. Going into EW from ShB the job got simpler, between the 2 minute meta and the removal of Mirage Dives from Spineshatter, it was very straightforward to line up Life windows with buffs, and all they really added was charges that forced you to hold spineshatter for 2mins and Wyrmwind, which doesn't require a ton of thought. Then in DT they remove Mirage Dive's interaction entirely, give us basically the same number of buttons to press meaning there is no added complexity, and now they decide it's still not enough even though this was already the simplest the job had been since the Stormblood? And again to the point of the original post, we're all sitting here talking about level 100 when playing the job in any content below level 90 is a total snoozefest after this change. You run out of buttons after 3 GCDs at 70. You run out of buttons after 4 GCDs at 80. At 90 you can get away with only doing one double-weave in your entire burst and still fit everything in. And so much of the game's content is stuff that isn't at level 100, to leave jobs in such a dull state for all that content is a serious oversight from the devs.

Everything you're saying is extremely subjective though, you have to understand this right? You never run out of buttons during combat. The rotation keeps going until the boss dies.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Everything you're saying is extremely subjective though, you have to understand this right? You never run out of buttons during combat. The rotation keeps going until the boss dies.

It isn't though. In terms of buttons, you should realize by this point considering how much I personally have hammered this point in directly to you, that I am talking about OGCDs. And yes, you do run out of OGCDs to press during a burst window. With EW and initial DT DRG that tended to only happen right at the end of the buff timer, but it did happen, and now with fewer buttons it happens faster, and as you get into lower and lower levels that happens faster and faster.

And complexity may not be exactly measurable, but it's hardly subjective. Having the exact amount of a resource that guarantees that every time buffs come off cooldown you willbe able to do your additional skills *is* less complicated than having too much or too little and needing to adjust to those circumstances to place those additional skills under as many buff windows as possible, and there is no person who will dispute that. And both of those are more complex than there not being a resource to manage, and those additional skills being accessed by pressing a button that has the exact same cooldown timer as the buffs you would be trying to align with, which again, no serious person would dispute. You can argue that Life Surge charges and Wyrmwind do add some complexity, but with Wyrmwind the entire thought process is "oh, my buffs will be back before I get another scale, let me hold this for a couple more seconds," which is not long-term planning, and with Life Surge it just amounts to press it twice under the stronger buffs and once under the weaker ones. Now, maybe some people will actually find that more complicated than needing to manage Gaze stacks to line up LotD and buffs, but I'd be shocked if that was a significant number of people.

That and SSD! Why take that away!? Literally the fun of DRG is gone now. Even if it was a non damage traversal I would be happy with that instead of yet another stupid dash.. and I do not care about the dragon shape that pops up. Feels like a cop out to me. The whole fun of dragoon was the jumping around and they stripped that out completely..

Wise are those who go past the cave to avoid interacting with the being within.

My dudes, you're all taking the troll bait hard, and doing so only makes the feedback here more difficult to parse for whoever collects it for the devs.