Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[Magikazam]

That's exactly what I'm criticizing. Healer should be the dude that had to keep the party alive.

Keeping the tank alive mean mobs don't agro the squishy party member and that keep them alive. You can't really make the dps take more damage in a meaningful way with how the fights in game work since the past 10 years. The only way to make healing meaningful is to make it so Tank can't heal themselves so easily.

The game is designed so DPS don't need healing unless they are one failed mechanic away from death or if there a rare unavoidable party damage. That just how it is. The only one taking constant damage is the tank so he the only one who need constant healing.

[CKNovel]

Why are you bringing up things besides dungeons, isn't PyurBlue only talking about dungeons.

Because only taking dungeons to ask for a nerf is cherry-picking.
Also if you absolutely want to limit yourself to dungeons: Criterion dungeons.

The game is designed so DPS don't need healing unless they are one failed mechanic away from death or if there a rare unavoidable party damage. That just how it is. The only one taking constant damage is the tank so he the only one who need constant healing.

So change the design? Which is my suggestion from the beginning.

[Shurrikhan]

Because only taking dungeons to ask for a nerf is cherry-picking.

"Your left foot has suffered severe frostbite. It's nearly rotten off."
"Why you cherry picking, doc? The rest of me is fine, so I'm fine."

Again, the suggestion is solely to have the single weird-in-that-its-scales-in-an-absurdly-overpowered-fashion skill scale in the way that all other reasonable skills scale. Orogeny does not hit for Upheaval's damage per target. Decimate does not hit for Fell Cleave's damage per target. Ixochole does not heal for Durochole's heal per target. Why should Bloodwhetting, and Bloodwhetting alone, heal for its ST value per target?

Dungeons are where the discussion landed only because you and others refused to acknowledge that AoE events occur in the game despite, easy content or no, their being frequent in the overall most frequently run instanced content in the game (dungeons). But the core is still just that: AoE scaling. Which is independent of the skill's ST scaling and does not even necessitate a nerf, however justified that too may be, to Warrior's typical sustain in basically-single-target-only content.

[CKNovel]

Again, the suggestion is solely to have the single weird-in-that-its-scales-in-an-absurdly-overpowered-fashion skill scale in the way that all other reasonable skills scale. Orogeny does not hit for Upheaval's damage per target. Decimate does not hit for Fell Cleave's damage per target. Ixochole does not heal for Durochole's heal per target. Why should Bloodwhetting, and Bloodwhetting alone, heal for its ST value per target?

Read what's below you just quoted. Criterion dungeon are fine.
Ironically, that's cherry picking again but this time it's my argument.

[Shurrikhan]

Read what's below you just quoted. Criterion dungeon are fine.
Ironically, that's cherry picking again but this time it's my argument.

How big a part does mass AoE play across the playtime of Criterion Dungeons? Again:

Dungeons are where the discussion landed only because you and others refused to acknowledge that AoE events occur in the game despite, easy content or no, their being frequent in the overall most frequently run instanced content in the game (dungeons). But the core is still just that: AoE scaling. Which is independent of the skill's ST scaling and does not even necessitate a nerf, however justified that too may be, to Warrior's typical sustain in basically-single-target-only content.

And what's more, Bloodwhetting/Nascent (+Stem the Tide & Stem the Flow) is still much stronger than Holy Shelltron (+Knight's Resolve & Knight's Benediction), Heart of Corundum (+Clarity of Corundum & Catharsis of Corundum), or TBN + Oblation in Criterion's 3-mob pulls. The fact that it often enough contributes less than the likes of HS's or HoC's total sustain outside of those AoE pulls only makes clearer that its linearly scaling its AoE potential off its ST potential is problematic (in the same sense that, say, the likes of DRK's miti kit is problematic -- either unbalancing the job in certain fights [see even just DT's first Savage fight] or constraining fight design by forcing each encounter's tank-mitigatable damage to follow an exact proportionality within specific timings).

[CKNovel]

Can't do that since the past 10 years of contents been designed around that. They would need to rework every boss fight, trial an raid.

It only concerns dungeons.
You don't even need to rework them all, just update the current expert dungeons and apply the recipe to future dungeons.

Dungeons are where the discussion landed only because

Adapt. Dungeons.
You don't cut a fish's fin because the aquarium is too small for all fishes, you get a better aquarium. In Criterion Warrior isn't broken, stronger yes but not broken, which was the basis of nerfing Bloodwhetting.
Healers designs suffers from SQEX just focusing on the number game then having ridiculous low, unevenly spread numbers in dungeons. They removed debuff cleansing without replacing it while they should've expanded upon it.

Nerfing Warrior won't fix the core issue and will just be a placebo, that's why I'm adamant to not nerf Warrior.

[PyurBlue]

Nerfing Warrior won't fix the core issue and will just be a placebo, that's why I'm adamant to not nerf Warrior.

Balancing WAR won't fix everything but it's a start. There is no danger of a placebo either, healing a WAR is vastly different from other tanks in a negative way, and trying to fix that by redesigning what isn't broken makes no sense. Dungeons pulls are built around a single target taking damage. There is nothing wrong with that, it has worked in the past, and it helps to give dungeons their own feel. WAR is the obvious problem so the path of least resistance is to address the problems it has created.

[Shurrikhan]

It only concerns dungeons.
You don't even need to rework them all, just update the current expert dungeons and apply the recipe to future dungeons.

Let's forget for the moment that it, in fact, concerns anything with AoE.

Even if we ignored that, you are suggesting that rather than simply adjusting the scaling factor for additional enemies struck by Bloodwhetting / Nascent so that it doesn't make up ~40% of a Warrior's sustain (vs. ~26% from Holy Shelltron, ~24% for TBN & Oblation, or ~24% for Heart of Corundum), we instead remove AoE from any and all future dungeons.

???

This would be like if the devs had taken Flare hitting for its full damage per target such that people would drop from Brayflox HM if they didn't enough BLMs and, rather than deciding to simply fix Flare's scaling, figured they would instead reduce all dungeons to a single mob pullable per wall.

Thankfully, they didn't. Because what you're suggesting would be absurd. Far too much so even for XIV's developments.

____________________

A simple way to balance warrior without having to constrain content further into doldrum for the entire game, is simply to...

1. Give Bloodwhetting diminished healing per target after the first enemy struck (more use cases for 2-3 targets, more engaging in terms of broader decisions) or heal for a portion of damage dealt (more engaging in terms of banking and bursting). (This brings it in check without costing it its flavor.)
   
   
2. Bring Holmgang's CD up roughly to everyone else's. (E.g., 7 minute Hallowed, 5 minute Holmgang, 6 minutes for the rest, at greatest spread.)
   
   
3. Have Dark Missionary and Heart of Light (and Dark Mind) grant some degree of general (not just magic-specific) mitigation, by whatever means, as to be a decent bit better against magic than purely general skills and a decent bit worse but not crippled against physical damage OR remove the categorical mitigation entirely and find another way to differentiate them.

Those three suggestions have been frequent since Endwalker dropped, btw.

[CKNovel]

Even if we ignored that, you are suggesting that rather than simply adjusting the scaling factor for additional enemies struck by Bloodwhetting / Nascent so that it doesn't make up ~40% of a Warrior's sustain (vs. ~26% from Holy Shelltron, ~24% for TBN & Oblation, or ~24% for Heart of Corundum), we instead remove AoE from any and all future dungeons.

???

"???" indeed, what are you talking about?
It's okay to have Warrior performing better against multiple target, at least that's a win against homogenizing the game.

My suggestion is to make Bloodwhetting less stronger by shifting the damage spread & increasing damages. Yes, Warrior will still be very strong in AoE situation (Which is good as it would be its identity) but the impact of this strength would be lessened by the additional sources of damages it can't cover.

Making Bloodwhetting capped on 1 target is only going to make Warrior similar to heal as PLD or GNB. Healing in AoE situation will remain the same boring mess except the healer ego will be less damaged.
It's putting the problem under a sheet so it won't be so blatantly visible.

[Magikazam]

So change the design? Which is my suggestion from the beginning.

Can't do that since the past 10 years of contents been designed around that. They would need to rework every boss fight, trial an raid.