Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[ApolloGenX]

There was a great discussion years ago in WoW about whether a button is fun to push had nothing to do with healing amount.

Example was Circle of healing was a brainless smart heal that was always the best option. Powerful, but not fun.

Stop trying to gimp others to force them to bring you along and calling it fun.

That isn't fun. Current healing isn't fun.

Holy used to be fun.

[Shurrikhan]

There was a great discussion years ago in WoW about whether a button is fun to push had nothing to do with healing amount.

Example was Circle of healing was a brainless smart heal that was always the best option. Powerful, but not fun.

Stop trying to [nerf Bloodwhetting back to when it was less ridiculous but better involved and engaged with the rest of one's kit use] to force them to bring [each role, in a intentionally trinity-based game] along and calling it fun.

The irony has to be intentional, right?

[Ramiee]

24 man raid are casual battle content. To not take it in account would be cherry-picking, exactly what this thread has been doing.
If you're still unhappy with it, then take in account criterion dungeon or deep dungeon like Eureka Orthos.

Take all data or take none, don't cherry-pick.

I don't get your point about "variety". Fates and Maps exist and use the exact same pattern. We would sacrifice nothing but gain more.

Why are you bringing up things besides dungeons, isn't PyurBlue only talking about dungeons.

[PyurBlue]

24 man raid are casual battle content. To not take it in account would be cherry-picking, exactly what this thread has been doing.

Where was I cherry picking? Dungeons work differently than other content and I think it's safe to say that is a design choice and generally accepted by the playerbase. WAR self healing is most problematic in dungeons so it's going to come up in a discussion on why WAR is problematic. Getting a WAR tank in high level roulettes is the least desirable outcome for me when healing and whatever happens in alliance or normal raids doesn't change that.

I'm editing this in to be extra clear. I don't think WAR healing is the only problem with healing at the moment and reducing WAR healing ability isn't meant to fix the entirety of healing. It's meant to fix a class that breaks the role system that FF14 is built around. Tanks that don't requiring healing spoil content where the healer is supposed to heal the tank. This has to be fixed as part of the greater effort to make healing as a whole more fun, unless rebuilding the entire game is being pushed as a realistic solution.

[ApolloGenX]

The irony has to be intentional, right?

BW is powerful but not always the best choice...and you can't spam it like you could CoH.

Not sure if you ate just trying to be picky or just joking around.

[Shurrikhan]

BW is powerful but not always the best choice...and you can't spam it like you could CoH.

Circle of Healing was a (frequently MP-intensive) CD. It wasn't spammable.

Perhaps you're thinking of Prayer of Healing, the spammable one? But then, that would have generally been the worse choice, the fallback akin to Medica I, rather than something akin to Indomitability/Rapture.

Regardless, though, BW is always the best choice and an overwhelming source of WAR's contribution in the content being discussed. But, as you noted about CoH, that doesn't make it fun. Rather, its excess in strength simply makes other kits (including the remainder of Warrior's own) that bit less fun.

[Magikazam]

That's exactly what I'm criticizing. Healer should be the dude that had to keep the party alive.

Keeping the tank alive mean mobs don't agro the squishy party member and that keep them alive. You can't really make the dps take more damage in a meaningful way with how the fights in game work since the past 10 years. The only way to make healing meaningful is to make it so Tank can't heal themselves so easily.

The game is designed so DPS don't need healing unless they are one failed mechanic away from death or if there a rare unavoidable party damage. That just how it is. The only one taking constant damage is the tank so he the only one who need constant healing.

[ApolloGenX]

Circle of Healing was a (frequently MP-intensive) CD. It wasn't spammable.

Perhaps you're thinking of Prayer of Healing, the spammable one? But then, that would have generally been the worse choice, the fallback akin to Medica I, rather than something akin to Indomitability/Rapture.

Regardless, though, BW is always the best choice and an overwhelming source of WAR's contribution in the content being discussed. But, as you noted about CoH, that doesn't make it fun. Rather, its excess in strength simply makes other kits (including the remainder of Warrior's own) that bit less fun.

No, lol. CoH was an instant and spammable when it was introduced...so was wild growth. They added the cd later.

Loved mending, though...the pinball heal. It was almost spammable...they nerved it though with a cd, too. /sadface

[Shurrikhan]

No, lol. CoH was an instant and spammable when it was introduced...so was wild growth. They added the cd later.

So, for <11%, soon to be <9%, of the game's lifetime (as we already know how it will function in TWW). Because they realized how dumb that was and quickly corrected.

As should be done with any heal tuned for a single-target but then allowed to scale linearly with target count. Such as EW-DT Bloodwhetting (whereas Nascent Flash in ShB was extremely strong but at least had a workable scalar).

(Also, no, Wild Growth was not. It both had a CD and, more importantly, was a HoT, making it incomparable to CoH or any other truly spammable heal.)

[Mercury_Grey]

Those aren't worthwhile identities. Those will merely produce rotating levels of competitiveness based on the fight's damage type and how deep one is into prog -> farm (or, how mistake-prone one's party is). "Diversifying" tanks in that way merely obliges tank players to level all 4 and for each fight to take only 1-2 particular tank jobs for their given degree of progression.

Or, more shortly put, those "identities" would just necessitate more job-leveling grinds while greatly reducing job choice for all tanks.

I did say those tanks as example cause GNB and DRK have magic defense in thier kit evne though GNB has one and PLD has shieldtron, cover, intervene, sentinel, and divine veilf or a shield. I mean if other jobs had more diversity that would be nice to see so it snot some of teh same classes i usually see when doing content.