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  1. #8041
    Player
    Naychan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    210
    Character
    Naychan Le'mew
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Vastly? Very unlikely. If you mean "Enmity management" in a form similar to what we had before, then perhaps faintly. But so would any other addition. And most additions wouldn't be nearly so expensive.

    As far as gameplay goes, I honestly struggle to think of anything less efficiently designed than this game's attempts at "Enmity management". It cost a lot to do shockingly little, adding far more to knowledge debt (in correcting overestimations of its optimal degree of interaction) than to actual gameplay.


    Unless any possible means of optimization would likewise be detested for "muh numbers", that is not the reason, mate.

    It was at most a reason to remove (dependence on) Quelling Strikes, Diversion, the enmity drop on Lucid Dream / Tactician / Refresh, as it otherwise meant that all other of a party's players could have their rDPS-increasing ability (by granting the tank more damage opportunity) could be wasted by a single neglectful or griefing member, not to remove something that could push player A's numbers further over player B's numbers through their or their party members' individual good play.

    The reason "Enmity management" was removed was simply that it was terribly implemented, and, per usual, rather than attempting instead to do something well, the devs just axed it outright.

    ______________

    Tl;dr: Asking for Enmity management back in anything like its previous implementation is like asking for WHM to rotate between Stone I, Stone II, Stone III, and Stone IV rotationally, each with its own button, for the exact same filler potency per gcd that it has now, and for a Lucid Dreaming II to which half of the first's MP generation has been siphoned. Would it add to gameplay? Technically yes. But only barely. And at a badly disproportionate cost.

    :: To be clear, this does not mean that Enmity management cannot theoretically be done interestingly and even at zero button cost, but, again, that's why I asked whether you were referring to something wholly new.
    They can even make a tackle Box that hold tackle. No way they could pull this off correctly.
    (0)

  2. #8042
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    7,107
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Capstone View Post
    This is not the gotcha that you think it is. For starters, healing is at its most interesting when we're going in there with minimum vit and minimum mind, and both I and my cohealer rate the pacing highly.

    The tier is substantially more recoverable with the punish for failures being things like dots, or not killing all 8 people, and with reasonably easy to hit dps checks you can take a few of these deaths and failures and be okay. Further, both my m3s and m4s clears were on the back of my lb3, with the m4s clear being extremely clutch and sending my friend's stream chat over the moon.

    My experience was intense, dynamic, and clutch, and my peers told me that they felt that I was playing out of my mind. It was a lot of fun and it rewarded what I see as my strength which is thinking quickly and triaging problems and finding the way through a mech going sideways, which was not a muscle I got to flex much in endwalker because of the high percentage of body check mechanics, but dawntrail has been really leaning into. I also had a blast doing other cute utility things like dashing forward to give our black mage an am target in some spots.

    The notion that all of that is invalid because I cast some glares as filler between intense healing spikes and clutch recoveries makes me really roll my eyes.
    Imagine doing all that and also having a rotation more interesting than 70% of your casts be glare
    (8)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  3. #8043
    Player
    Capstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    55
    Character
    Cap Stone
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Imagine doing all that and also having a rotation more interesting than 70% of your casts be glare
    I fail to see how pressing 123 instead of 111 changes the conversation. But anyway I gave my opinion--what did you think of the savage tier?
    (2)

  4. #8044
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    7,107
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Capstone View Post
    I fail to see how pressing 123 instead of 111 changes the conversation. But anyway I gave my opinion--what did you think of the savage tier?
    And the “123 not 111 isn’t better” argument returns
    (11)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  5. #8045
    Player
    SamLeens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    43
    Character
    Sam Leens
    World
    Raiden
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lann_Gallowfield View Post
    Both Ex trials cleared with no healer your strike didn't work. #RemoveHealerRole lets see some interesting solo style class design everyone heal themselves and get to blasting
    Did you know that a challenge run does not prove that a class/job is "useless"?

    Let's look at the Challenge run with only 1 DD, 5 Tanks and 2 Healers - Ucob golden God clear, for example. You logic says that one DDs is enough in an 8-player party.

    How do the challenge runs prove that healers, and only healers, are useless? Because there were no healers? And if someone does the runs with 7 healers and a tank, or so, they are no longer useless, but the DDs are. Right? Right???
    Oh.. but that would mean that challenge runs no longer serve the purpose at all.

    Let's get rid of all classes! #deleteallclasses
    (2)

  6. #8046
    Player
    Capstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    55
    Character
    Cap Stone
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    And the “123 not 111 isn’t better” argument returns
    You didn't answer my question.
    (1)

  7. #8047
    Player
    Ramiee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,096
    Character
    Grainne Gothram
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Naychan View Post
    They gave pictos a group heal? Wtf
    Yeah every 2 mins but due to how boss damage is regulated it's rare that this isn't an overheal since it's not like you can save it to heal. It's a very pointless attachment tbh especially with the group shield already being good enough.
    (1)

  8. #8048
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    7,107
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Capstone View Post
    You didn't answer my question.
    Because you didn’t properly acknowledge my point

    Regardless this tier is boring and low effort, reminds me of edens gate (that’s not a compliment)
    (6)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  9. #8049
    Player
    Ramiee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,096
    Character
    Grainne Gothram
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Regardless this tier is boring and low effort, reminds me of edens gate (that’s not a compliment)
    Hey at least come 7.1 unreal comes back and the stormblood trials are amazing.
    (1)

  10. #8050
    Player
    Capstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    55
    Character
    Cap Stone
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Because you didn’t properly acknowledge my point

    Regardless this tier is boring and low effort, reminds me of edens gate (that’s not a compliment)
    Well, congrats on your clear.
    (0)

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