Page 659 of 1119 FirstFirst ... 159 559 609 649 657 658 659 660 661 669 709 759 ... LastLast
Results 6,581 to 6,590 of 11187
  1. #6581
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,507
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    I still don’t understand why the trinity is so horribly broken that we are at at the point of tanks soloing the boss being the average experience in a first time leveling dungeon and you choose to blame that on the healer strike and not the fact that tanks are so disgustingly overtuned that it leads to this

    I don’t want to sit around and watch someone else play the game for the simple reason they survived because they take 80% less damage than me and they only survived because of that, not because they are a better player than me. I’m not going to leave or post healer strike btw (mostly because I dont play healer in DT) but I understand the frustration. It isn’t fun to watch other people play the game for you. Why is the healer leaving bad behaviour but the tank ignoring the calls to wipe to do it themselves not.

    This seems to be a problem with wider opposition to the strike, everything negative that can possibly be attributed to healers is and tanks get off Scot free. Leaving a dungeon in annoyance because the tank won’t let you play the game is far less egregious than the tank not letting you play the game


    As for people being rude in this thread, if people didn’t open their comments with fire and vitriol then maybe people would be more civil. How often do you see a striker open with vitriol rather than someone going “just my two cents but yall shit and garbage”
    (23)

  2. #6582
    Player
    Striker44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,101
    Character
    Elmind Exilus
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramiee View Post
    Remember you are worthless healer mains the strike means nothing. Just play a different role.
    Also stop being selfish and play healer you're purposely griefing peoples roles I want my DPS queues to be lower.
    Also you're all elitist and not thinking about casual players and also your parses show you're bad and casual at the game so we don't need your opinions.
    No I will not be playing healer that role sucks why are you telling me to?

    Am I missing any?
    You're seeing contradictory things like this because the people supporting the strike are so disorganized and all over the place. Some people follow the "manifesto" and stridently claim the goal is to convince the dev team to make fundamental changes to the game. Others ignore the very "manifesto" they're signing and say it's not about changing anything at all. Even among those calling for change, some want healers to be given full DPS rotations, others want fights to have more damage to heal, yet another group wants the other roles (tanks in particular) to have less self-sustain, and even more groups want various combinations of those things. When you see counterpoints being made to the various contradictory claims, of course those counterpoints will themselves seem contradictory. It's just a reflection of how much of a mess this "strike" thing is.

    I'm "opposed" to the strike for two reasons. First, if you go by what the actual "manifesto" says and the goal is to fundamentally change the game, well, I like healing how it is right now. When I want an involved DPS rotation, I'll play a DPS class. If I want something kinda "in-between," I'll tank. I don't play a healer to go through DPS rotations. Now, if the sole goal was to increase the amount of damage being done so that we'd have "more to heal," I could potentially get behind that. But the "goal" of the strike is so all over the place, I can't have any confidence that's the direction things would ultimately goal.

    Second, if you ignore the "manifesto" and take people at their word claiming the "strike" is not about changing anything, then it gets reduced to just people with a diva complex and a desperate desire to be the center of attention. It's where the argument of "if you don't like healing...just...don't heal" that pops up frequently in here comes from. Because those supporting the "strike" aren't just switching to other roles; they're insisting on shouting it from the proverbial rooftops so that everyone knows. If the goal isn't to promote a change and is all about just calling attention to yourself, that's immature, and deserves to go nowhere.

    I'll continue playing my fun jobs while you can enjoy your one button spam.
    Comments like this supplement the above. People who can't fathom that others might enjoy playing a role that one personally doesn't find fun. (Hint: Play DF with random people and you'll be doing plenty of healing.)

    But I will say simply this: were this a strike that was conducted in a civil and reasonable manner, sure I could support that. But when all I have seen from the strike is bad behavior (it's entirely possible this could be an aberration and simply bad luck on my part, I will admit),
    Trust me, you don't just have "bad luck." Those supporting the strike are a whole ball of condescension and belittling. Case in point - earlier in this thread I pointed out that since DT started I've needed to heal even more than usual. The first reply to it was a "strike" supporter insinuating it somehow meant I was a bad healer, and not one person called him out on it (but plenty of supporters "liked" that kind of response - nevermind how non-sensical it even is). These are the types of people pushing this thing.
    (3)
    Last edited by Striker44; 07-09-2024 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Added last two quotes.

  3. #6583
    Player
    Aravell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,994
    Character
    J'thaldi Rhid
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    Ten years and going. I remember protect and stoneskin. I remember Aero III. What's funny is I seem to recall a time where healers were upset that they were expected to DPS, especially in Stormblood. Which of course prompted SE to make the changes that have been made, and now suddenly we want everything back when we got what was asked for. History quickly seems to be forgotten here.
    You are aware that the playerbase is not a hivemind, yes?

    The people that asked to not have to do damage are not the same people who are asking for more damage options now.

    > Group A asked to not have to do damage, group B is currently enjoying the healer role.
    > SE changes the gameplay of the entire role to cater to group A, group B is becoming increasingly unhappy.
    > Group B takes to the forums to present criticism while group A is enjoying the role.

    It's cyclical, you should know this.
    (19)

  4. #6584
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,507
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Striker44 View Post
    snip.
    striker this is like a new low even for you

    You open your comment saying that strikers bring contradictory as hominem attacks down on themselves by not having a consistent point then you insult us then your third comment is basically saying we are all toxic and horrid people. AND you skipped over like 5 pages where two anti strikers came in and called us every name under the sun rather than actually debating our points

    Are you ever going to call out toxicity on “your” side or are you really going to attempt to justify saying “attacking strikers is a okay but also your feelings of being hurt because a striker attacked you are totally valid and they are all toxic” in the span of a single comment
    (23)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  5. #6585
    Player
    Sani2341's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    289
    Character
    Yo-tsu Amilar
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    Ten years and going. I remember protect and stoneskin. I remember Aero III. What's funny is I seem to recall a time where healers were upset that they were expected to DPS, especially in Stormblood.
    Mind showing us sources for that claim?

    Because, at least from all I could find, Back in Stormblood there were two major complaints about healers:

    WHM lilies suck.
    Why can't AST have a stacking AoE DoT as Well.

    Neither of which fit this alledged narative of 'people asked for ShB Healer changes' that Get's thrown around.

    SB era posts should be pg 80-100ish of the Healer subforum iirc.
    (11)

  6. #6586
    Player

    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    343
    "you just want it to be harder" no I don't but I shouldn't have to come here for every new page to repeat very simple ideas like

    You can make something more interesting without making it harder
    Casual gameplay should be fun for different kinds of casuals
    All the gameplay should be interesting for players at all levels

    Skill floors and ceilings exist separately and you can raise the ceiling without changing the floor or changing the overall required skill for succeeding in content

    Having the ability to do something harder does not mean having to do it to clear content unless you're playing harder content with stricter rules so having a higher skill ceiling, if designed correctly to accommodate YOU and ME should allow you to continue to play as you currently are or worse for all I care and let me have more fun in a dungeon

    Even pressing 1111111 can be made more interesting, as can be seen in other jobs all over the game now who have buttons that change when you press them

    "You don't care about controller players" I am a controller player
    "You are an elitist raider" I am a level and expert roulette spammer
    "Dungeon and MSQ content isn't real content" all parts of the game are gameplay I paid for
    "You don't care about disabled players" I'd go to bat for my fellow disabled players any day, having muscular dystrophy and cerebral palsy or anything else I have shouldn't mean getting boring gameplay experiences

    Accessibility, ease of access, interesting gameplay, and difficulty are different things even if they interact with each other

    Older content should be engaging and fun because it's the wall between new players and the new jobs and expacs

    I do not want a SUPER HARD SICK EXPERT ELITISM MEGA WOMBO COMBO DPS ROTATION *DOOM MUSIC* CASUALS WILL QUAKE IN THEIR BOOTS AND CRY FOR MOMMY

    I want you to be able to no DPS all heal your way through the entirety of MSQ dungeon content if it pleases your little heart or perhaps go with a more traditional 11111 gameplay and give me the slight flexibility to do something more rewarding and interesting to have the slightest edge over you in content where it doesn't matter anyways and if your response then is to worry about having to do it: don't

    "Well someone will yell at me because a dungeon went a couple of minutes slower than it could have" ok yeah gamers have brain worms. Maybe one day we will find a cure. I love speedrunning dungeons too but I don't mind them taking an extra couple of minutes. I'm being generous with thinking it would be minutes too.

    If I was the tank and got a healer and they did suboptimal DPS in leveling roulette I would shrug. I can't speak for everyone! I think most people should shrug at that, it's not a wipe. I think they should laugh at a singe wipe too. I just don't think we should obliterate job variety and skill ceilings to prevent people from acting like jerks to each other. Nothing will prevent that. Nothing at a game design level will anyways.

    I think all the roles and jobs are getting more boring, not just healers. Healers are just the most vocally tired of it and this is the feedback forum where they've been getting ignored for years. And I'm tired of watching the game get more uninteresting too.

    Did you know good homogeneous design exists? Even homogeny doesn't have to be the demon. Tekken and Smash have plenty of it while still having flavor. Standardizing gameplay isn't strictly evil. But you can do it carelessly and FFXIV feels like that.

    It's been designed to be easy to tweak numbers for balance purposes and create a poor illusion of player expression and character fantasy. They've slowly turned the jobs into skins. They've overdesigned the game. Squashing nonstandard rotations is direct evidence of that.

    It is no longer designed to be fun, it is designed to be tolerable. 3 players being unsure if they will quit is more than 1 or 2 players logging on excitedly to play. Player retention is all that matters even if the players are having an okay time at best. It's McDonald's now. You will eat the slop and pay too much for it while it gets worse and more expensive each time. Enough people will come back that the doors stay open. If I yell it's slop, I get told "well it's McDonald's what did you expect"

    So yeah it's square, what did I expect. Defend the slop if you want even though I don't want to take it from you. I just want a better variety of slop. I remember when the slop tasted good. Now it's all the same, the illusion has broken down. Job variety is a cold, hard, calculated design with the minimal amount of variance to give the impression of flavor.

    Every job is the bad sparkling water equivalent of what it could be. The dead spices in your grandma's cabinet from 10 years ago that still hint at having smelled or tasted like something once before becoming dirt.
    (20)
    it/its - 14 accessibility is bad, ease of access is not accessibility, jobs are boring. Transphobia ruins real attempts at criticism and it's whack.

  7. #6587
    Player
    Punslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    126
    Character
    Adela Skychaser
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    I don't personally get why folks are so upset that healer isn't being given many dps buttons. I figure if you want to dps, then play a dps.
    This talking point got repeated already? Damn, my watch must be slow. Anyway, here's my refutation of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    But this healer strike feels more like an ego move and development of a god complex.
    And WAR soloing current content isn't, because...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    I think the biggest take away too is to remember that we are part of a team.
    In much the same way that the mascot is part of the sports team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    Healers most certainly do have a place.
    I want you to sit in the corner and think about what you just said. "Healers aren't allowed to do more than one thing, because they're part of a team, but it's perfectly fine for tanks to solo dungeons."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    Okay so what if your tank can literally run the dungeon by himself?
    And that's supposed to excuse tanks being OP, because...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    What about your dps? They certainly can't. And even if you don't heal, the additional DPS you provide will help kill things faster.
    Not as fast as an actual third DPS job would. With tank self-sustain where it is, all you really need is an RDM or SMN plus any two other DPS jobs for an easy 1T3D fast run. Literally the only reason to bring a healer is because the DF roulette forces you to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    This protest frankly does harm not only to those who are trying to play and causing queues to be high
    I have become convinced that the anti-strikers are people who were tragically born without a sense of self-awareness.

    You: "I figure if you want to dps, then play a dps."

    Also you: "This protest frankly does harm not only to those who are trying to play and causing queues to be high"

    Pick one already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    but it also makes the collective healer community look elitist and frankly... really... egotistic.
    Yes, we're "elitist" because we want gameplay more engaging than mashing one button over and over. Yep, that's totally a reasonable conclusion that a reasonable person of reasonable intelligence could reasonably draw from the arguments presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    It's just a game and isn't that serious friends.
    What an odd way to end a rant about how we all have "god complexes" and "egotism." If it isn't that serious, why'd you get so worked up about it? Appeal to Triviality is a sword that cuts both ways.
    (14)
    "Once upon a time, you were the based healer, who could carry any tank through the largest of pulls! Now you're just here because the Duty Finder said you have to be." - Lucy Pyre

  8. #6588
    Player
    PercibelTheren's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,014
    Character
    Percibel Theren
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumi_Ametrine View Post
    Just to put my two cents in.

    To get what those involved in the healer strike is asking for is to gatekeep healing.
    No, it isn't. Everyone is asking for the skill floor to be kept low and for the skill ceiling to be raised.
    (8)

  9. #6589
    Player
    sindriiisgaming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,430
    Character
    Sugar And'spice
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Punslinger View Post
    This talking point got repeated already? Damn, my watch must be slow. Anyway, here's my refutation of this.



    And WAR soloing current content isn't, because...?



    In much the same way that the mascot is part of the sports team.



    I want you to sit in the corner and think about what you just said. "Healers aren't allowed to do more than one thing, because they're part of a team, but it's perfectly fine for tanks to solo dungeons."



    And that's supposed to excuse tanks being OP, because...?



    Not as fast as an actual third DPS job would. With tank self-sustain where it is, all you really need is an RDM or SMN plus any two other DPS jobs for an easy 1T3D fast run. Literally the only reason to bring a healer is because the DF roulette forces you to.



    I have become convinced that the anti-strikers are people who were tragically born without a sense of self-awareness.

    You: "I figure if you want to dps, then play a dps."

    Also you: "This protest frankly does harm not only to those who are trying to play and causing queues to be high"

    Pick one already.



    Yes, we're "elitist" because we want gameplay more engaging than mashing one button over and over. Yep, that's totally a reasonable conclusion that a reasonable person of reasonable intelligence could reasonably draw from the arguments presented.



    What an odd way to end a rant about how we all have "god complexes" and "egotism." If it isn't that serious, why'd you get so worked up about it? Appeal to Triviality is a sword that cuts both ways.
    Genuine question but other than dungeon 1. What current content is war soloing. Because having seen and done many of these dungeons. Including the expert. Its simply not possible without a healer
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming View Post
    your titanmen, hes titanmen IM TITANMEN are there anymore titanmens i should know about?

  10. #6590
    Player
    WaxSw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    657
    Character
    Waxillium Larede
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming View Post
    Genuine question but other than dungeon 1. What current content is war soloing. Because having seen and done many of these dungeons. Including the expert. Its simply not possible without a healer
    Literally every dungeon, the unavoidable damage is still spread enough for non healer sustain to not be needed and a good tank with decent dps wont die
    (3)

Page 659 of 1119 FirstFirst ... 159 559 609 649 657 658 659 660 661 669 709 759 ... LastLast