#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[gllt]

I still believe it's less catering to "bad players" specifically and more removing visible gaps in gameplay between all skill levels in order to mask anything players could use to be critical of each other.

But that's not really possible. People will be critical of each other and say nasty things to each other no matter how much you hide their gameplay from one another. You don't need a DPS meter for someone to tell you that you're playing badly. They don't even need to be right. People will find ways to blame their teammates no matter what game they play.

So I do think they're catering to a certain group of players, it's just that those players aren't one specific skill level, but rather people who can't mind their own business.

Other job is easier than mine! Other job gets this toy, why doesn't my job get this toy.

I think it's that and people who want to play jobs for the style or fantasy of playing the job but don't actually like how the job plays. Which I think is a valid complaint if it's coming from the majority of people who main that job. Well, an overwhelming majority. If it's like 51% I think it's a bad move to act on a number like that.

But we can't really know that kind of thing easily.

So yeah, I do think they listen to feedback and look at gameplay metrics, but I think the goal that maintains the bottom line in their eyes is creating gameplay that minimizes friction between players by making them as self responsible for success as possible.

If they have to talk to each other, or one role has to do something that isn't the tank or healer, someone will get yelled at! And that person might cancel their sub.

It's just more of the game failing to facilitate interactions between players. Kind of like the culture around commendations being "just give it to the healer or whoever is left if the healer left too quickly" most of the time. Failed system even if some people use it with actual intention sometimes and commend someone for what they thought was good gameplay.

[aiqa]

What I am saying is. You can discuss ideas, post feedback and so forth as much as you like(and like you need mine, some rando internet guy's permission anyway ) but I am very skeptical that this strike will achieve anything. SE like any profit based company, base their decisions on profit, market analysis and so forth and not on "emotional forum tantrums". No offense meant. If they see a potential profit gain, they will act and their PR guys will present it as "we listened to feedback and we are the good guys!" but if there is no profit to be gained or they at least see it like that..then....

Edit: While I barely if ever use the FFXIV and if its indeed true that some healers have been posting the same feedback for 6 years without any response from SE. "An absence of an answer is still an answer". And I doubt they are refusing to budge only because they are stubborn oxes.

I would appreciate it if you were a bit more explicit with your intentions. You imply a "you guys should stop providing feedback on the forums, because stuff on the forums will not be listened to anyway" without actually saying the words.

And if that is indeed you mean. Why are you trying to convince other people of that, people that have clearly decided it is worth another try, and have an actual goal (improving the healer role situation in FF). You could have applied that same believe to your own posts, which would be a lot more reasonable since it's your own believes. And after 600 pages it should be obvious that people who support the strike will not listen to someone trying to convince them it's all pointless, so following the logic that it's pointless to post about stuff that wont change...... And contrary to people supporting the healer strike, you don't even seem to have a worthwhile goal.

ps. I didn't mean this in hostile way. THe post might come accros a bit hostile. But it was already tricky enough to try get accros what I mean without making it sounds nice.

[Revash]

I still believe it's less catering to "bad players" specifically and more removing visible gaps in gameplay between all skill levels in order to mask anything players could use to be critical of each other.

But that's not really possible. People will be critical of each other and say nasty things to each other no matter how much you hide their gameplay from one another. You don't need a DPS meter for someone to tell you that you're playing badly. They don't even need to be right. People will find ways to blame their teammates no matter what game they play.

So I do think they're catering to a certain group of players, it's just that those players aren't one specific skill level, but rather people who can't mind their own business.

Other job is easier than mine! Other job gets this toy, why doesn't my job get this toy.

I think it's that and people who want to play jobs for the style or fantasy of playing the job but don't actually like how the job plays. Which I think is a valid complaint if it's coming from the majority of people who main that job. Well, an overwhelming majority. If it's like 51% I think it's a bad move to act on a number like that.

But we can't really know that kind of thing easily.

So yeah, I do think they listen to feedback and look at gameplay metrics, but I think the goal that maintains the bottom line in their eyes is creating gameplay that minimizes friction between players by making them as self responsible for success as possible.

If they have to talk to each other, or one role has to do something that isn't the tank or healer, someone will get yelled at! And that person might cancel their sub.

It's just more of the game failing to facilitate interactions between players. Kind of like the culture around commendations being "just give it to the healer or whoever is left if the healer left too quickly" most of the time. Failed system even if some people use it with actual intention sometimes and commend someone for what they thought was good gameplay.

I believe its one of the root causes of toxicity in WoW end-game environment. Your success being dependent on others. And if another player "fails to live up to your expectations" then like I mentioned before, gamers are emotional beings and will start their blame witch hunt. SE might be desperately fighting against it. And how successful they are? Well we got a 610+ page post to discuss it I guess.

[Ayalu]

What does confuses me is that People that tell us that its "Useless" seem to forget that Yoshida already spoke about that they overdid the simplification and that it cant be reversed immediadly what has happend over expansions.
WHich was a common complain in the Forums. Especialy right now when they start working on the next expansion ,which apparently has Class Identity and Gameplay as focus, its good to put a spotlight on the needs of this Role.
Dont get me wrong the entire design needs it but we are in Healer Striker so i will focus on that.

---
Toxic People will be toxic no matter the class design.
Look at those parse brainers <.<

WoW has a attitude and community problem, they need strict diciplinary measurement and clear coutner measurement against the swamp of toxic behaviour.
I once brought FF14 friendliness into the game and people in random content were shocked about that and surprised that someone showed them genuin friendliness. Poor souls

[Revash]

I would appreciate it if you were a bit more explicit with your intentions. You imply a "you guys should stop providing feedback on the forums, because stuff on the forums will not be listened to anyway" without actually saying the words.

And if that is indeed you mean. Why are you trying to convince other people of that, people that have clearly decided it is worth another try, and have an actual goal (improving the healer role situation in FF). You could have applied that same believe to your own posts, which would be a lot more reasonable since it's your own believes. And after 600 pages it should be obvious that people who support the strike will not listen to someone trying to convince them it's all pointless, so following the logic that it's pointless to post about stuff that wont change...... And contrary to people supporting the healer strike, you don't even seem to have a worthwhile goal.

ps. I didn't mean this in hostile way. THe post might come accros a bit hostile. But it was already tricky enough to try get accros what I mean without making it sounds nice.

Like I said before. I am a random internet Joe. Nobody will quit anything because I said so. I know that. But a lot of posters are being very emotional and want to spite SE for their perceived neglect. I am only pointing out that if somebody really wants to spite SE then voting with your wallet is the only way. A company sees you as $ and nothing more. As long as they get your $, then dont care if you actually play the game or write complaint posts on the forums 24/7.

[gllt]

It's a thing going on in fighting games as well, where legacy skill is intentionally crushed in order to level the playing field. But then it doesn't really work. Veteran players pick up on the changes quickly and stomp the new players into the ground. So they change the game up drastically every few patches in order to make it so everyone has to keep relearning everything. And people who get bored of the game come back for the patch cycle to see the changes, which increases player counts and gets people to buy DLC even if they're going to leave again shortly thereafter.

I think we're in a similar boat with FFXIV. It's not directly competitive, unless you play pvp which is balanced separately on purpose, but coop games still involve a lot of friction between legacy players and new players in a similar way. I think FFXIV is dependent on the players who just show up to see job and system changes and then leave.

Basically what I'm saying is, I think we're being continually baited into hope for changes or new jobs that will satisfy some of us, just to get us to come back to the game for a bit, even if those changes never really come. And it's best if they don't come so that I keep getting baited into coming back out of the hope that they will eventually come.

You can only wiggle the carrot on the stick in front of me so many times. Catch up to the latest expansion, we put in a slightly fun ability! You can't use it in the last several expansions of content but don't think about that too much. Look, Expedient go brrr hehehe. New effects! Wow!

[Kes13a]

What I am saying is. You can discuss ideas, post feedback and so forth as much as you like(and like you need mine, some rando internet guy's permission anyway ) but I am very skeptical that this strike will achieve anything. SE like any profit based company, base their decisions on profit, market analysis and so forth and not on "emotional forum tantrums". No offense meant. If they see a potential profit gain, they will act and their PR guys will present it as "we listened to feedback and we are the good guys!" but if there is no profit to be gained or they at least see it like that..then....

Edit: While I barely if ever use the FFXIV and if its indeed true that some healers have been posting the same feedback for 6 years without any response from SE. "An absence of an answer is still an answer". And I doubt they are refusing to budge only because they are stubborn oxes.

I am not sure that it will change anything either to be honest. Yoshi has said that essentially, they went to far in simplifying the game.. oops! this "strike" for better or worse has made it outside the SE bubble of the forums, so now it also becomes a PR thing. what happens is anyone's guess and I am not going to speculate. but if their profits tank because they are abandonned by people who might want to use their brains occasionally when playing jobs... they cannot say they did not see it coming.

as in all things, time will tell. all I know is at this point, I need to see something actually change for the better before I spend money on 8.0. vague promises of a change have carried me this far, but the tank is dry.

[PercibelTheren]

my fear now is that what little bit of regen i got this expac will be taken away lol.

I doubt it. Also, the general agreement seems to be that DRK's sustain isn't a problem. A skilled DRK can mitigate a lot of damage, especially in decent gear, but won't be immortal and sure as hell won't keep the party alive as well as a dedicated healer can (WAR can do this in dungeons very easily). GNB, imo, is on the edge of still being somewhat acceptable. I understand the class fantasy of Paladin being the protector and support of the party. They may have overdone it a little bit, however. WAR is just insane. It's the best at everything tank and it's also stolen Paladin's party healer identity.

[RhaesDaenys]

Thanks for the even faster QUeues, strikers, love it!

[ZephyrMenodora]

Watching this interview with healer strikers right now as I work - was anyone from here a part of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_NsNMEAdPo