#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Veil_Lord]

The issue at the core of everything is that you spend the vast majority of your time using your two damage buttons, on every healer. And if they buff tank and DPS's ability to sustain themselves, while leaving incoming damage the same, then you are going to spend even MORE of your time with your two damage buttons. If a healer is brought along at all, at that point.

To be fair... it's kind of right there in the name: Healer. As opposed to "Damage Per Second" which is a whole other class, or tank. The focus is on keeping people alive, just like tanks are the damage sponge, and DPS are the ones who do most of the damage. Any damage a healer does is just gravy the way the duty system is set up. Instead of every player being something of an army unto themselves, they are intended to have to rely on one another to successfully complete tasks. You don't like the direction the healer jobs are going, that's a valid opinion. However, you'd probably have more luck getting people to listen to you if you had actual solutions to propose instead of just complaints. It's like the line from Tommy Boy: "Great, you've identified the smell! Step two is washing it off!" You've identified a series of problems, the next step is coming up with solutions. Spend some time thinking through how healers could be made better, and not just "go back to <version> which was perfect." It wasn't; you know it, I know it, so does everyone else. You want to add a new attack for healers, fine, but show that you've thought through how it would impact the overall balance of the game. Also accept that there are likely technical and legal reasons why they may not ever implement your idea. If you're not willing and able to accept that, you should just move on to another game now.

I think they should either scrap, or completely overhaul THM/BLM, but I don't really have any ideas to offer on how exactly to improve it, so I tend to keep that thought to myself. I do hope one day they take up my idea of creating a physical ranged healer though. Maybe for 8.0. They could call it Acupuncturist and they throw needles with various potions on the tips to apply different effects. However, that's about the sum total of what I've got for it thus far, so it would need a lot of fleshing out before it's ready. Maybe another physical ranged job that focuses less on damage and more on causing status aliments to enemies. Possibly even zero damage and allow them to be a fifth member of a standard duty. That one might be a lot of work to implement, however, since it potentially would require reworking the logic for every single enemy, but it would make for an interesting shakeup to gameplay IMO. As any developer will tell you, sometimes the smallest seeming changes require the biggest refactoring of code to implement. Even if the devs wanted to make some changes, it might require a massive overhaul of the code, which then requires a lot of testing, etc.

[Rolder50]

To be fair... it's kind of right there in the name: Healer. As opposed to "Damage Per Second" which is a whole other class, or tank. The focus is on keeping people alive, just like tanks are the damage sponge, and DPS are the ones who do most of the damage. Any damage a healer does is just gravy the way the duty system is set up.

The problem with this is that there is nothing to heal. There is so little damage in raids that you can just pop one of your dozen off-GCD heals in response to any one event and you will never run out. So guess what happens for the other 90% of the time when there is nothing to heal? Damage!

Compare this to other MMOs such as our good friend WoW where healers have to actually make proper use of their healing buttons in order to keep the group alive without running out of mana. There is thought required and you have to combo together particular actions for the best results. None of this "Oh a raidwide happened, just use one afflatus rapture charge and go back to doing damage since the next hit doesn't come for another 30 seconds."

[Galvuu]

To be fair... it's kind of right there in the name: Healer. As opposed to "Damage Per Second" which is a whole other class, or tank. The focus is on keeping people alive, just like tanks are the damage sponge, and DPS are the ones who do most of the damage. Any damage a healer does is just gravy the way the duty system is set up. Instead of every player being something of an army unto themselves, they are intended to have to rely on one another to successfully complete tasks.
(other nonsense follows)

Do you even play FF XIV? First of all, there's content in the game that's borderline unclearable without that "gravy on top" (go and tell me how your 0 dps healer TOP clear goes). Let's not act like healer dps is an afterthought- this line of thought has been crushed since Gordias and Midas, which was 8 years ago. How are we still discussing this point is beyond me. Unless you mean dungeons... in which case, you talk about "relying on the party", which is the damn whole point that people are discussing, isn't it? That, right now, in the other content that's not high-end of the difficulty scale, people don't need healers for a damn thing.

And the rest of your rant is just asinine nonsense sorry- first of all, it's not my damn job to find a solution for any problem in FF XIV. I'm not paid to be SE's game designer. I pay a damn sub and I'm voicing my discontentment with part of the experience offered to me.
But lucky for mr SE, people actually have put forward a lot of good ideas of how to address the issue, some being very low hanging fruit like tossing healers a few dots or a dot proc system or simply freaking restoring one of the 10 healer actions they deleted like Miasma II and were fine for literally 6 years.
I don't know why I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I mean, you started with "I didn't read the 500 pages of discussion" and then segue into "maybe you guys should discuss this".
I dunno man, maybe it's in one of the 500 pages you elected not to read before posting this nonsense. Before telling people what they should do or discuss, maybe read what was said before.

[KisaiTenshi]

Do you even play FF XIV? First of all, there's content in the game that's borderline unclearable without that "gravy on top" (go and tell me how your 0 dps healer TOP clear goes).

The developers are on record multiple times that the fights are not designed for ANY DPS to come from the healer. If you want to clear that raid at minimum ilevel, you can still do it.

Some players just have no patience and are goblins about "looking busy" even when they're the one being carried. It is far more likely that the tank or the healer DPS "helps a teeny-tiny bit" when the DPS keep eating dirt. If the DPS keeps eating dirt that is a net DPS loss. If those DPS want to whine about healers not DPS'ing I better see them not taking a single bit of avoidable damage.

It is factually incorrect to claim that content is unclearable without the healer DPS'ing. If people really gave a care about their DPS, every single DPS would be a black mage since they have the highest DPS output. No ranged DPS at all. That DPS gap between having 1 DNC/MCH/BRD vs one BLM is bigger than the Healer DPS'ing at all.

[Galvuu]

The developers are on record multiple times that the fights are not designed for ANY DPS to come from the healer. If you want to clear that raid at minimum ilevel, you can still do it.
(...)
If people really gave a care about their DPS, every single DPS would be a black mage since they have the highest DPS output. No ranged DPS at all. That DPS gap between having 1 DNC/MCH/BRD vs one BLM is bigger than the Healer DPS'ing at all.

I'm certain that TOP is unclearable if both of your healers do 0 damage.
Dungeon gear and relics might have made it possible to do this in Dragonsong p7, but it still probably requires the absolute best dps/tanks players and some lucky opener rng.
Multiple EW fights are also unclearable week 1 without healer dps (you absolutely were not clearing 8S door boss week 1 with 0 dps healers and I'm fairly confident this also applies for 12S).

I'd like a citation on that developer statement but, even if they did say that, that's simply not true in our current FF XIV- I just gave you a few examples where fights cannot be cleared with 0 healer dps.
Also, your later comment is also just wrong- you're ignoring the multiplicative nature of raid buffs, the 1% bonus per each of the subroles present, each job's burst phase... in fact, the fastest recorded kills of 12S for EW have no BLM in the party. In a 2 min burst meta, raid buffs almost always wins (though BLM is competitive as a one-of... but 4 BLMs would never even work in any difficult content). Incidentally, that also doesn't work for TOP because you need a range lb in p6. You just die to the meteors.

Wiki says Thunder pre 2.1, Blizzard 2, Ruin, and even Mercy Stroke for some reason. On top of like every DPS cooldown.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Additional_action

So, yeah. There we have it. Amazing job design we have now, so that the literal training wheels version of White Mage had a more meaningful DPS toolkit.

Thunder was interesting because it was a dps gain and had a different duration- so healers could be juggling three different timers on their dots. Honestly, I can see why they removed Thunder, but it was fun nonetheless!
(Thought I had posted this before, guess I need to go sleep)

Edit: fwiw, there is content where healer damage isn't required. There's also content where healer healing isn't required too! That's why blanket statements like "healer damage isn't needed" or, the more extreme but equally silly "healer healing isn't needed" are not correct and, frankly, don't help the discussion. Healers need their healing to be more meaningful, more engaging and could also do with a more interesting and expressive dps rotation. I'm not advocating solely for more dps tools, I just think that's the easiest thing to start with. I definitely would like XIV to move away from its encounter design and allow for reactive healing in its content.

[KisaiTenshi]

I'd like a citation on that developer statement but, even if they did say that, that's simply not true in our current FF XIV- I just gave you a few examples where fights cannot be cleared with 0 healer dps.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...NwqZTwPUw/edit

Q3.) So...healers now have their DPS scale with Mind AND accuracy is no longer an issue. Do you think this will lead to players having even higher expectations of healers to contribute DPS to content since it is a much easier thing to do now?

A.) First of all, we do not expect healers to contribute to DPS. However we know a lot of the cutting edge players enjoy this aspect about the job and that those progressing in the raids early on use it help clear the fights. We decided to make it so that the idea was more approachable and less punishing so that if a player wants to try it, they aren’t sacrificing all of their healing capabilities to do so like they were with the old Cleric Stance. We didn’t like seeing healers doing entire dungeons in Cleric Stance, especially if they forget to switch back and heal!

That being said, and I want you to really reinforce this to your viewers, I firmly believe it shouldn’t be mandatory and we do NOT have the expectation of them to DPS.

That came directly from Yoshi-P.

[Supersnow845]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...NwqZTwPUw/edit


That came directly from Yoshi-P.

That was from HW, it is no longer remotely mathematically possible to do that

[KisaiTenshi]

That was from HW, it is no longer remotely mathematically possible to do that

So you think Yoshi-P just turned and went "make these terrible DPS players suffer now." No.

Their design decisions have not changed, you can even see that on the third party site, the Healer's combined, can never contribute more than 10% of damage. The numbers are exactly the same as they were 7 years ago.

More to the point, if they intended the healer to DPS, the gap would be wider so you could not clear the content unless everyone was overgeared, including the healers.

[Kes13a]

That was from HW, it is no longer remotely mathematically possible to do that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9kGj4eLKTE

this came from Xeno apparently a year ago. seems they still dont know what to do with healers....

well, we know what direction they went.. which is as simple as possible

[Kohashi]

The developers are on record multiple times that the fights are not designed for ANY DPS to come from the healer. If you want to clear that raid at minimum ilevel, you can still do it.

Some players just have no patience and are goblins about "looking busy" even when they're the one being carried. It is far more likely that the tank or the healer DPS "helps a teeny-tiny bit" when the DPS keep eating dirt. If the DPS keeps eating dirt that is a net DPS loss. If those DPS want to whine about healers not DPS'ing I better see them not taking a single bit of avoidable damage.

It is factually incorrect to claim that content is unclearable without the healer DPS'ing. If people really gave a care about their DPS, every single DPS would be a black mage since they have the highest DPS output. No ranged DPS at all. That DPS gap between having 1 DNC/MCH/BRD vs one BLM is bigger than the Healer DPS'ing at all.

Hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! What are you on? please share.

Where did they say the healers are not meant to DPS, please link?

If the healer doesn't DPS you will NEVER go past enrage at min ilvl. The amount of damage healers do is actually not that bad. They are not doing the same amount of damage as a BLM or Sam would, but healer damage is important as well.

Just because you can be a heal bot in a trash dungeon, doesn't mean it's valid for everything available in the game.