Bring Back Kaiten

[Arkdra]

Does the silent majority really care if they add or remove Kaiten or will they just keep playing the game for whatever reason that they were already playing it before? Will Kaiten being live or dead stop them from grinding CT or fishing or outfits or MGP or fall guys?

Why not listen to the minority that does care, clearly pretty passionately? Sounds like they're the main ones affected by it to me.

It's not an issue of caring, it's an issue of trying to shuffle these people through the content they do. A random nerd off the streets of uldah probably doesn't really understand how potency or math works and kaiten was a stumbling block for these people. They either weren't using kaiten at all, which was a problem, or they would use it wrong, which is just as much of a problem. Do these bad sams care about this? No, they aren't aware it's a problem. Do I care about this? Yes, there's a reason that samurais were the butt of bad dps jokes forever. Kaiten (and tsubame) are why.

Not that I don't agree that cries about the silent majority of kaiten dislikers doesn't ring hollow. There's no evidence that we have access to that indicates this either way.

But I will turn this around on you; the people who won't give up on kaiten obviously don't care either because from what I understand, you can't post here without an active sub. Y'all aint cancelling, why would they revert?

[Kissune]

It's not an issue of caring, it's an issue of trying to shuffle these people through the content they do. A random nerd off the streets of uldah probably doesn't really understand how potency or math works and kaiten was a stumbling block for these people. They either weren't using kaiten at all, which was a problem, or they would use it wrong, which is just as much of a problem. Do these bad sams care about this? No, they aren't aware it's a problem. Do I care about this? Yes, there's a reason that samurais were the butt of bad dps jokes forever. Kaiten (and tsubame) are why.

Not that I don't agree that cries about the silent majority of kaiten dislikers doesn't ring hollow. There's no evidence that we have access to that indicates this either way.

But I will turn this around on you; the people who won't give up on kaiten obviously don't care either because from what I understand, you can't post here without an active sub. Y'all aint cancelling, why would they revert?

Why do jobs need to be changed around people being unable to read tooltips or learn their class? Bc no matter how much you trim away for the sake of 'ease of access' you're always going to have a bunch of people who just press whatever buttons they like in whatever order they like, and get through every piece of sub extreme content just fine bc that's how the game is designed.

If you design classes around people who don't want to or care to play the classes the way there were designed, you are eventually going to end up asking yourself why you're bothering to design them in the first place. The fact that I still see people screwing up classes like summoner to this day just tells me that theres no sense in endlessly simplifying jobs bc they will never, ever be simple enough for the apparent target audience.

[Silhart]

It's not an issue of caring, it's an issue of trying to shuffle these people through the content they do. A random nerd off the streets of uldah probably doesn't really understand how potency or math works and kaiten was a stumbling block for these people. They either weren't using kaiten at all, which was a problem, or they would use it wrong, which is just as much of a problem. Do these bad sams care about this? No, they aren't aware it's a problem. Do I care about this? Yes, there's a reason that samurais were the butt of bad dps jokes forever. Kaiten (and tsubame) are why.

Not that I don't agree that cries about the silent majority of kaiten dislikers doesn't ring hollow. There's no evidence that we have access to that indicates this either way.

But I will turn this around on you; the people who won't give up on kaiten obviously don't care either because from what I understand, you can't post here without an active sub. Y'all aint cancelling, why would they revert?

I can fully believe that there were people who did not understand how Kaiten worked, but I don't see why this justifies its removal. The devs could have just as easily reworded its tooltip to say that it 'increases the potency of your next Iaijutsu by 50%' to make its function more clear. Why does 'throw it out' have to be the solution to everything in this game that isn't 100% perfect?

And I'm gonna be real, I'm struggling to accept that Kaiten was the main reason those SAMs were bad. Think about the main reason why any player in this game underperforms: it's because they can't keep their GCD rolling. Removing Kaiten was never going to help with this. Unless you're prepared to argue that Kaiten was somehow preventing these people from keeping their GCD rolling.

If you design classes around people who don't want to or care to play the classes the way there were designed, you are eventually going to end up asking yourself why you're bothering to design them in the first place. The fact that I still see people screwing up classes like summoner to this day just tells me that theres no sense in endlessly simplifying jobs bc they will never, ever be simple enough for the apparent target audience.

I got curious and took a peek at FFLogs, and I was absolutely floored by what I found:

Despite being the easiest and most straightforward job to play, Summoner somehow has the most variation in DPS scores among every job in savage. Like, that lower bound is absolutely appalling. It's Summoner. How are people messing up this badly?

[Equitable_Remedy]

Despite being the easiest and most straightforward job to play

Summoner somehow has the most variation in DPS scores among every job in savage.

Narrative violation!

[AsiTsurugi]

It's not an issue of caring, it's an issue of trying to shuffle these people through the content they do. A random nerd off the streets of uldah probably doesn't really understand how potency or math works and kaiten was a stumbling block for these people...

Huh, really? Because I read this the other day, from someone who claims to know how the "casuals" play this game, like you:

They effectively were competing for the exact same resource, both were off global uses for it especially with Kaiten's CD reduction to 1s. Kaiten's PPK (Potency per Kenki) was just tuned higher for your Iajutsu casts so you hit a different button before using them.
...
As for why Kaiten wasn't reduced in potency? For one simple reason my dude. Potency per Kenki, which makes it so you want to press abilities over others. Reducing it's contribution and leaving it in was not on the cards due to it would have an adverse effect on Shinten, Kyuten, Guren and Senei.

So which of the two is true here? That the "random scrub in Ul'dah" doesn't know how tooltips and PPK works, or that they are all aware of that and still want it gone because they can't handle two buttons competing for the same resource?

Pretty weird contradiction from people that claim they know exactly why Kaiten needed to cease existing, no? One might even be correct in guessing that people like this just hate anyone having fun at all because they are too inept to wrap their heads around more than one button existing, and consequently come up with whatever words they think fit together.

Do these bad sams care about this? No, they aren't aware it's a problem. Do I care about this? Yes, there's a reason that samurais were the butt of bad dps jokes forever. Kaiten (and tsubame) are why.

Sounds like skill issue there buddy. If you are being compared to "bad sams", then maybe you want to let your supposedly superior performance do the speaking and ignore the naysayers, instead of wanting everything dragged down the the level of these "bad sams", so you can then, presumably, feel good about not being the only one being besmirched. Because, to counter your anecdotal experience anecdotally, I am barely average at sam, and no one compares me to these "bad sams" you refer to, not even when I barely started playing the game a few years ago in ShB, which had both Kaiten and Tsubame.