Bring Back Kaiten

[Yenrz]

I'm convinced this is why they keep removing these skills: to "make room" for the new jobs that are just the same thing again.

Which, if you look at the history of "charge up" moves, you could argue Dark Arts was killed to make room for Kaiten.

Like how they removed SAM's Goken Cones but let RPR keep theirs. RIP

[SeverianLyonesse]

The skills in the meme have nothing in common and who made the pic doesn't understand how Pictomancer works.

I mean yes, this isn't exactly the example I would put forward to make that point, either.

But there is still a general sense of truthiness to it.

[Kazimere]

It isn't coming back. People need to get over it.

[RyuuZero]

It isn't coming back. People need to get over it.

No, because Kaiten put a literal Spin on the Samurai Rotation which is gone and why the Job feels now more stale..
I recently saw a Video about the SAM Changes on DT and ._. WTF WERE THEY THINKING!?!? Why does Meikyo generate Tsubame Stacks?
Who asked for 1 minute Guren/Senei?
Regarding Guren/Senei..
Why is it bad that Guren/Senei lined up with Ikki?
Why is Zanshin just a OG Guren but Cone?
Shoha being merged is bad because now we lack agency to determine what we wanna hit and what not (but many ppl asked for a merge, I guess. So now if I locked into a Situation where I have to focus 1 mob in a Trash Pull I sit on my Shoha Stacks instead of just blasting the Single Target Shoha.. LESS RESOURCE INTERACTION YAAAY, just like Kenki*cough*)
Why does Higanbana get excluded from Tsubame and not just find another solution (I'm not a Fan of Excluding Iaijutsu)
Samurai kinda looks they applied Pre-Rework DRG designs applied to them.. like seriously another Midare/Goken Animation.. like High Jump?? huh
Judging from What I saw so far of DT Samurai: It looks more like a clunky Dynasty Warrior than a Realised Master of the Blade who has become One with the Battlefield!

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Here are my suggested Changes for Samurai:

1. Reintroduction of Kaiten, but it applies Direct Hit now, So not only does it reward Kenki Interaction but also interacts with SAM's Auto Crit, rewarding with Direct Crits now.
2. Ikkishoten turning Shinten into Senei and Kyuten into Guren, saving 2 Buttons
3. Tenka Goken remaining a Cone
4. Tsubame being a Follow-Up to Iaijutsu (maybe half the damage for balancing reasons)
5. Shoha staying seperate to offer the Player Agency of what they wanna do instead of having an entire resource for a Line AoE?
6. Removal of the Kenki Cost of Gyoten/Yaten, since they're utility
7. A Single Target Ogi instead of Zanshin, to Expand on the Player Agency Idea
   THEORY TERRITORY
8. Now.. If I come up with something New-ish taking into account from what I saw from the DT SAM, I would make that Tendo Buff a Follow-Up to Tsubame, basicly: Iaitutsu -> Tsubame -> Tendo. Which may turn the Samurai into a Iaijutsu Spammer but to be honest with Kaiten, The Samurai a Midare Setsugekka Spamurai and that felt so Good!
9. Thinking about Higanbana following Changes come to Mind: add Tsubame DoT and Tendo DoT

[Vandi]

I’m a mindless Sam player who’s macroed in Shinten on my buttons so I never give thought to pressing it (so relaxing haha). As for Kaiden, my reasons for wanting it back have very little to do with utility, but the job’s rhythm! Yep. Dps be damned. But hearing the whoop whoop whoop slice of Kaiten before Kasha or Gekko lands is just a nice melody. That’s all. No other reason. Bring that back please!

[RyuuZero]

Shinten as Macro? How does that work? xD
here are my macros, that I use on SAM:

Double Slice Buster:
/macroicon Ikishoten
/ac Ikishoten
/ac Ogi Namikiri

which is Ikishoten and Ogi on One Button, just press that button 3 times and gg^^
and
Golden Eyes
/makroicon Hissatsu: Senei
/ac Shoha
/ac Hissatsu: Senei
/ac Hissatsu: Seigan*

*another deleted Skill that I put in that macro, therefor that skill is fuctionally for the macro irrelevant

[HikariKurosawa]

Here are my suggested Changes for Samurai:

1. Reintroduction of Kaiten, but it applies Direct Hit now, So not only does it reward Kenki Interaction but also interacts with SAM's Auto Crit, rewarding with Direct Crits now.
2. Ikkishoten turning Shinten into Senei and Kyuten into Guren, saving 2 Buttons
3. Tenka Goken remaining a Cone
4. Tsubame being a Follow-Up to Iaijutsu (maybe half the damage for balancing reasons)
5. Shoha staying seperate to offer the Player Agency of what they wanna do instead of having an entire resource for a Line AoE?
6. Removal of the Kenki Cost of Gyoten/Yaten, since they're utility
7. A Single Target Ogi instead of Zanshin, to Expand on the Player Agency Idea
   THEORY TERRITORY
8. Now.. If I come up with something New-ish taking into account from what I saw from the DT SAM, I would make that Tendo Buff a Follow-Up to Tsubame, basicly: Iaitutsu -> Tsubame -> Tendo. Which may turn the Samurai into a Iaijutsu Spammer but to be honest with Kaiten, The Samurai a Midare Setsugekka Spamurai and that felt so Good!
9. Thinking about Higanbana following Changes come to Mind: add Tsubame DoT and Tendo DoT

1: No. Shinten, senei/guren, and now zanshin are way more enjoyable uses of kenki than something that is necessary before midare and often misused by players that don't understand potency. Plus it's a bad animation like I keep stating over and over.
2: Why?
3: Sure but I don't care either way. It is nice quality of life for our AoE iaijutsu to follow the same radial pattern as the builders.
4: Ew.
5: What? Everyone wanted shoha to be one button, and on top of that we get a line AoE which is something nearly everyone wanted: less radial more cone/line. It is still a single target attack with extremely high potency, it is just also an aoe.
6: ?? For someone who wants more kenki interaction and more thought put into kenki management, this take is surprising. They would have to have more than 10sec cooldowns if the resource cost was removed and that's just less flexibility and player agency.
7: Nah more aoe is more fun in dungeons. Both zanshin and ogi namikiri are dual purpose aoe and single target and it's more satisfying that way.
8: I disagree with this one too. Tendo's purpose is to make our buffed iaijutsu distinguished and more powerful than the ones cast during our unbuffed rotations. It is to increase the visual impact of our highest potency moments. If we are building up to it with 2 regular iaijutsu it doesn't have that same full power effect but feels like we're building up to it instead despite already being full power due to being in our buff windows.
9. No. Tsubame on a dot is incredibly boring. Same with using dots during a buff window.

[RyuuZero]

1: No. Shinten, senei/guren, and now zanshin are way more enjoyable uses of kenki than something that is necessary before midare and often misused by players that don't understand potency. Plus it's a bad animation like I keep stating over and over.

You could replace the 50 Kenki of Ikishoten with "Zanshin Ready" and nothing would change. Again Kaiten made Kenki interact with Weaponskills, Shinten is just an Ability that does Single Target Damage, not really worth to introduce an entire resource if you ask me

2: Why?

So that Senei/Guren better line up within the 2min window instead of them 1min which may cause drift now..

3: Sure but I don't care either way. It is nice quality of life for our AoE iaijutsu to follow the same radial pattern as the builders.

Because Iaijutsu should always require a target, regardless if it's Single Target or not

4: Ew.

so you prefer Tsubame locked behind Meikyo instead of Iaijutsu?

5: What? Everyone wanted shoha to be one button, and on top of that we get a line AoE which is something nearly everyone wanted: less radial more cone/line. It is still a single target attack with extremely high potency, it is just also an aoe.

Yeah but now you have 1 Skill locked behind 1 resource AND you lack options. As Samurai, you never sit on your resources because of situations. That's what we will lose in DT and saying that "it doesn't matter" only holds true until you hit something you didn't wanted to hit, like a mob in the PotD of DT for example, now Shoha is just Geiskogul and the Shoha Stacks can't be spend on anything else but

[RyuuZero]

6: ?? For someone who wants more kenki interaction and more thought put into kenki management, this take is surprising. They would have to have more than 10sec cooldowns if the resource cost was removed and that's just less flexibility and player agency.

Counterquestion: Are Gyoten/Yaten Damage or Utility? Utility shouldn't require a Job Gauge Resource.

7: Nah more aoe is more fun in dungeons. Both zanshin and ogi namikiri are dual purpose aoe and single target and it's more satisfying that way.

Well AoE is more useful for Trashmobs and Add Heavy Boss Fights but it's not the only thing in this game. I for example don't wanna sit on my resources because hitting one add by accident wipes the raid.

8: I disagree with this one too. Tendo's purpose is to make our buffed iaijutsu distinguished and more powerful than the ones cast during our unbuffed rotations. It is to increase the visual impact of our highest potency moments. If we are building up to it with 2 regular iaijutsu it doesn't have that same full power effect but feels like we're building up to it instead despite already being full power due to being in our buff windows.

So you like the idea of buffed Iaijutsu but the Skill that made you Buff Iaijutsu(and all Weaponskills) is something you hate.. huh.. I wonder if you would hate Kaiten if it turns Iaijutsu into Tendo ^^ though on a more joking remark imo NIN should've gotten Tendo xD

9. No. Tsubame on a dot is incredibly boring. Same with using dots during a buff window.

I just wanna Iaijutsu Equality for Higanbana

[AsiTsurugi]

snip

Every day people like Ryuu get baited into responding to and acknowledging the existence of creatures leading provably net-negative existence.