Bring Back Kaiten

[Arkdra]

I don't mind goken not being a cone anymore, but I miss fuga being a cone. The nice thing about the cone > circle alternating pattern is that sometimes cones are preferable to circles when multiple mobs decide to drop overlapping circles. Being able to get out and whip a cone safely at everything feels better than doing a circle and only hitting half the pack because you've had to dodge off somewhere suboptimal. Also, I personally find the movement of switching between cone and circle more fun than standing still. Maybe with shoha being a line again the movement aspect will return. Zanshin too to some degree but it's a 2 minute ability so not going to be that much a game-changer.

[RyuuZero]

You okay? People are allowed to express that they don't agree with what is being posted.

and I agree with this^^

I don't mind goken not being a cone anymore, but I miss fuga being a cone. The nice thing about the cone > circle alternating pattern is that sometimes cones are preferable to circles when multiple mobs decide to drop overlapping circles. Being able to get out and whip a cone safely at everything feels better than doing a circle and only hitting half the pack because you've had to dodge off somewhere suboptimal. Also, I personally find the movement of switching between cone and circle more fun than standing still. Maybe with shoha being a line again the movement aspect will return. Zanshin too to some degree but it's a 2 minute ability so not going to be that much a game-changer.

I'm fine with Fuko as a Circle, since it's a GCD AoE Weaponskill Combo Starter, you kinda auto pilot that stuff anyway. Not with Iaijutsu though and that's what annoys me about Zanshin.. it's just OG Guren but a Cone, no nuance has been added to SAM.. I see the additions of Dawntrail to SAM more like Dragoon Direction Updates applied to Samurai.. Tendo is just Highjump-styled Animation changes and Damage Boosts, Zanshin invalidates the 50 Kenki that Ikishoten gives and the ability to use the Shoha Stacks explicitly on Single Target is gone.. or in otherwords Shoha is now Geirskogul.. not a fan of those changes, but this isn't first time. we gotta see.

[HikariKurosawa]

Tendo is just Highjump-styled Animation changes and Damage Boosts, Zanshin invalidates the 50 Kenki that Ikishoten gives and the ability to use the Shoha Stacks explicitly on Single Target is gone..

It's not like that though, tendo only happens during your burst windows. Otherwise we get the original animations. It's a cool change that reflects our current state of potency and a visual indication of buff windows. Currently samurai just flows out high potency abilities and you can't really tell the difference between burst and normal aside from how fast it all comes out, now there will be a big visual contrast between burst and filler.

Zanshin justifies the 50 kenki that ikishoten gives and removes the drift factor between senei and ikishoten uses on top of ensuring less shinten spam. It is more interplay between abilities. Something players like you have been asking for, now it happens and you don't like it for some reason?

Who was using shoha stacks explicitly on single target? If shoha came up during an AoE pull and you weren't using shoha 2 you are trolling the group. AoE is how to make dungeon runs fast. Boss fights are not the important part of dungeons from an optimization perspective. Holding cooldowns for bosses or stacking power for bosses is how you get really slow dungeon runs. Like I said before, the vast majority of samurai players are celebrating this change and it is a good thing because they changed it from a radial AoE to a linear AoE. I personally don't like the linear AoE in samurai, but it's whatever at least it requires positioning and consideration. At least it fits the game and goes along with enpi and guren thematically. Did you just take shoha 2 off your bar or something?

[RyuuZero]

It's not like that though, tendo only happens during your burst windows.

So I don't just play my rotation towards to Tendo whenever I want? doesn't sound Good.

state of potency and a visual indication of buff windows.

.. like Kaiten?

Currently samurai just flows out high potency abilities and you can't really tell the difference between burst and normal aside from how fast it all comes out, now there will be a big visual contrast between burst and filler.

well.. with Kaiten you heared 4 Sword Swooshes and you knew the Next Attack hits harder is normally^^

Zanshin justifies the 50 kenki that ikishoten gives and removes the drift factor between senei and ikishoten uses on top of ensuring less shinten spam.

Not really, Ikishoten always was more like the free version of Hagakure, it just gave you Kenki to work with, to spend on Senei/Guren and those skills cost 50 Kenki originally. I'd argue with the 1min Senei/Guren it actually makes the drift even worse^^
and also back then, we had Kaiten to channel those Extra Kenki to boost our Weaponskills, not just spamming Shinten^^

It is more interplay between abilities. Something players like you have been asking for, now it happens and you don't like it for some reason?

And that's correct, which is why I want Kaiten back^^ The Interplay or Synergy of Kenki and Weaponskills is just a unmatched beauty that still hasn't been recaptured

Who was using shoha stacks explicitly on single target?

like lvl80 or Boss Fights, don't tell me that you use Shoha II in Boss Fights!!

[RyuuZero]

If shoha came up during an AoE pull and you weren't using shoha 2 you are trolling the group. AoE is how to make dungeon runs fast. Boss fights are not the important part of dungeons from an optimization perspective.

ofc you use Shoha II for Dungeon Trash Pulls but Dungeons aren't everything in this Game!

Holding cooldowns for bosses or stacking power for bosses is how you get really slow dungeon runs. Like I said before, the vast majority of samurai players are celebrating this change and it is a good thing because they changed it from a radial AoE to a linear AoE.

.. and removed the Single Option

I personally don't like the linear AoE in samurai, but it's whatever at least it requires positioning and consideration. At least it fits the game and goes along with enpi and guren thematically. Did you just take shoha 2 off your bar or something?

You act like Shoha was added in Endwalker but it was perfected with Option to apply Shoha Stacks to multiple situations.
But I have a Counterquestion: Why am I allowed to apply Kenki to Single and AoE seperately but not Shoha Stacks?
You see, the perfect Samurai can apply all their resources to the required situation.. Not just blast Cone AoEs and Line AoEs while being Single Target.. that's what Dragoons do. Are you a Dragoon?

[A_moth_called_rose]

Man I still miss kaiten. I miss my cool flippy katana flourish right into midare setsugekka. the new stuff just doesn't FEEL the same

[RyuuZero]

Last Post I forgot to also mention the overall Good Stuff they added to SAM in Dawntrail:
Tengentsu seriously who thinks that Tengentsu is Bad needs to be checked since it really feels soo Good!! even though the delay of the self heal is a bit weird but I'd say that's a nitpick (until the Serious Endgame Raider Samurai rages about it.. or something).
And Yeah that New Tendo stuff also looks cool.. (still would be funny if NIN would've gotten Tendo) HAH! xD

as for the concerning/Bad Part.. I'd say the focus on Meikyo is something to think about.. I mean.. seriously? We're lvl100 Samurai and we focus on a lvl50 Skill all the sudden? Not helped by the fact that Tsubame is now locked behind Meikyo which just feels clunky!!! and Tendo?? Why not make it that Meikyo only gives Tendo and Tsubame being the Follow Up to Iaijutsu? Also an Interesting thing that I noticed that the Kaeshi Higanbana removal doesn't feel as Bad as I thought^^
the 1min Guren/Senei may reduce the Shinten Spam but doesn't change the Fact that Kenki is just a replacable Burst Resource and now even worse but with the 1min Senei/Guren you rather icentificed to sit on Kenki so you can better line up Senei/Guren within your 2mins.. yay and Zanshin? does literally nothing! you could remove Ikishoten's 50 Kenki and replace it with "Zanshin Ready" and the outcome would be the same where I still have to ask the Question: Why is the Synergy of Kenki and Weaponskills Bad?
also.. Gyofu.. why? who asked for Gyofu and why doesn't it give 10 Kenki like Fuko????

Just tested it.. Tendo is just a Potency Increase... So Direct Hit Kaiten LET'S GOOOO

[Inosaska]

I still have the ability on my bar and I hope it returns in some form in the future for us to use it.

[jonimated]

As a current Viper main I would like to formally apologize to all the Samurai, past and present.

When Kaiten was first removed I was firmly in the camp of "It's just a maintenance ability you use on the same thing every time. Just add the extra damage to the skills themselves and be done with it." I was completely oblivious with how the removal of what seemed like a simple maintenance mechanic could change the feel of a job so drastically.

I was wrong. With the removal of Noxious Gnash I have been humbled. I hope all the Samurai who want Kaiten back get it back. I hope all the players who have had a button or mechanic removed from their jobs under the guise of "button bloat" or "simplification" get back what they lost.

[Quor]

As a current Viper main I would like to formally apologize to all the Samurai, past and present.

When Kaiten was first removed I was firmly in the camp of "It's just a maintenance ability you use on the same thing every time. Just add the extra damage to the skills themselves and be done with it." I was completely oblivious with how the removal of what seemed like a simple maintenance mechanic could change the feel of a job so drastically.

I was wrong. With the removal of Noxious Gnash I have been humbled. I hope all the Samurai who want Kaiten back get it back. I hope all the players who have had a button or mechanic removed from their jobs under the guise of "button bloat" or "simplification" get back what they lost.

Appreciate it bro. It's sadly quite easy for many people to reduce things down to "it's just a button you press before another button" without realizing that EVERY button is just a button you press before another button. In order for skill expression to exist there has to be a fail state, and I feel for those VPR's that lost that little bit of optimization joy in their rotations. I imagine it's what I felt on SAM when I perfectly nailed my rotation such that I had three Sen going into buffs with Tsubame 2s from cooldown, firing off a Midare right as the buffs appeared on my bar and then following it up with a seamless Kaeshi, putting Tsubame back on cooldown without missing a beat, then hitting Meikyo into Gekko into Higanbana, refreshing the DoT right as it dropped off.

Lining Gnashing timings up in such a way that you could double Awaken without worrying about losing the debuff probably felt pretty damn similar. Just that raw satisfaction of knowing you timed it all perfectly and with all your ducks in a row you're about to drop the damage hammer in perfectly optimized fashion.