Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Nubrication]

There was always an element of risk back then, having BH5 meant you're permanently marked on the map and you have to rely on your healers to get you through fights because you die just as fast as everyone else. But now that everyone has Recuperate, the healing boost part has become unbalanced, you now deal more damage at BH5 and are also much harder to kill than everyone else because you heal 7500 more than normal, that's all the benefits and none of the downside, some adjustments do need to be made to keep it somewhat balanced.

Yes, exactly - you HAD to rely on your healers. Now you can't. Not because you're (not you literally) bad, but because they're (healers) toolkit no longer allows it. You're forgetting that PVP changed drastically compared to before. Survival is more on the individual now; while winning still requires teamwork. So it only makes sense that healing still gets a boost from BH. And the damage you deal with BH5 only brings it slightly above normal, you're forgetting that everyone takes less damage, and some jobs do less dmg in FL.

As for the map pinging. That also makes sense because anyone can get BH5 now. The game mode changed so obviously your toolkit is going to change with it to make it more manageable. The fact that you can get BH5 with just assists is saying something. Battle Fever took like 6-8 kills? I forgot.

TLDR: Game mode has changed -> survival is more self-reliant -> recuperate bonus is needed.

[Nubrication]

It sounds like you yourself have no idea how to play Frontlines, or you're just a troll. Either way, I don't care, I'm not asking for your advice. I make that recommendation as a player who regularily attains BH V, and keeps it throughout the match with little challenge.

Changing BH to make players more vulnerable doesn't discourage people from PvP. It discourages steamrolling, and makes teams have more of a fighting chance to make a comeback. If you can't see that, or simply just want to disregard anything I have to say, circus is that way bub.

Yeah, you get BH5 playing what, NIN? LOL. BTW, your circus was great, I loved your clown costume. Bub.

[Aravell]

TLDR: Game mode has changed -> survival is more self-reliant -> recuperate bonus is needed.

It's actually because survival is more on the individual that I think the healing boost from BH is unbalanced. You had to rely on others to survive fights back then, so the healing boost was justified to make that easier. But now you rely only on yourself to survive, the healing boost is unnecessary because you don't have to work with a healer anymore, it all depends on your own play.

Also, if you remember Battle Fever, then you must also remember how hard it was to get (only kills counted, no assists) and how easy it was to lose it (you lost all of it on death, doesn't just halve it like now). You could very easily just lose it all if you got caught by a Cometeor and 2 Bravers back then, unless you had a pocket SCH.

The game mode has changed and so a rebalancing does seem in order. What I think is fair is that if BH remains this easy to stack, they need to nerf the benefits of it, or they could revert to only being able to stack it on kills and losing it all on death to justify the strength of BH in the current FL.

[Mawlzy]

It's actually because survival is more on the individual that I think the healing boost from BH is unbalanced. You had to rely on others to survive fights back then, so the healing boost was justified to make that easier. But now you rely only on yourself to survive, the healing boost is unnecessary because you don't have to work with a healer anymore, it all depends on your own play.

Also, if you remember Battle Fever, then you must also remember how hard it was to get (only kills counted, no assists) and how easy it was to lose it (you lost all of it on death, doesn't just halve it like now). You could very easily just lose it all if you got caught by a Cometeor and 2 Bravers back then, unless you had a pocket SCH.

The game mode has changed and so a rebalancing does seem in order. What I think is fair is that if BH remains this easy to stack, they need to nerf the benefits of it, or they could revert to only being able to stack it on kills and losing it all on death to justify the strength of BH in the current FL.

I imagine jobs that splatter the field with low-damage AoEs and DOTs would have an issue with that.

[Neoyoshi]

I havn't flung myself belly-first into Frontline since the most recent update that altered data points; i wonder how that affected frontline(?)

[Colt47]

I havn't flung myself belly-first into Frontline since the most recent update that altered data points; i wonder how that affected frontline(?)

Not a whole lot. It's still basically like schools of fish flocking around one another to make it hard for the predator to pick one of the guppies out and eat them. And in general while the PvP changes going into endwalker are good, what they need is literal NPCs and a gambit system to get this thing working. PvP is basically going to die out anyway since it either grows stale too quickly (Crystaline Conflict) or is an RNG mini-game with Frontlines that most people forget to do anyway. I went all the way to rank 25 twice to get the special armor coffers from the last two that had them and I am barely rank 7 on this one from sheer burnout.

[IDontPetLalas]

I havn't flung myself belly-first into Frontline since the most recent update that altered data points; i wonder how that affected frontline(?)

If your question pertains to popularity- I have yet to see a FL queue exceed 5 minutes, frequently less. So some people may explicitly not queue for Shatter, however I haven't really seen a difference.

[Mawlzy]

If your question pertains to popularity- I have yet to see a FL queue exceed 5 minutes, frequently less. So some people may explicitly not queue for Shatter, however I haven't really seen a difference.

We might not get a clearer picture until after the Mogtome event. But agree, given the complaints about FL (including from me), the queue times suggest it's popular. Whether that popularity is driven mostly by XP and rewards is harder to determine.

[Nubrication]

It's actually because survival is more on the individual that I think the healing boost from BH is unbalanced. You had to rely on others to survive fights back then, so the healing boost was justified to make that easier. But now you rely only on yourself to survive, the healing boost is unnecessary because you don't have to work with a healer anymore, it all depends on your own play.

4x15000 heals = 60000 HP. That's literally nothing when 7+ people are trying to bash your brains in. I'm not even counting the BH that they (the 7+ players) might have or their crowd control. You seem to be overestimating the power of recuperate. The real reason why it seems OP is because players don't crowd control correctly. Stun your BH5 target who is at full HP? Chances are he's going to get away, unless you got a whole alliance on him.

I think it IS balanced simply because you can't rely on your healers anymore, so the only way to heal yourself really, is to rely on yourself. A melee in a really good premade back then was impossible to kill. Like literally. I'm talking about 20+ kills and 0 deaths, which was insane back then. The only way to stop a good premade was to make a counter full party premade of PvP players. Now, even premade melees can easily die. BH5 players are easier to kill then BF players BECAUSE anyone can get BH now. So ANYONE can do more dmg, more heals. So that's why I think recuperate should heal more per BH. Also, because of all the AOEs now, it's definitely needed. You remember the fiasco early on of Onsal/New Pvp Mode? Where everyone was WHM/SMN and alliances got wiped before they could even get into melee/mid range. Then they swapped to all SCH (simply imagine 8 buffed SCH debuffs and you have an unbuffed recuperate at BH5, how exactly do you think that's gonna work out?). Then the PLD HG cheese. And now finally we have the DRK/DRG/(AST) meta. Shoot, when Secure first came out, everybody was WHM holy spamming lmao.

Also, if you remember Battle Fever, then you must also remember how hard it was to get (only kills counted, no assists) and how easy it was to lose it (you lost all of it on death, doesn't just halve it like now). You could very easily just lose it all if you got caught by a Cometeor and 2 Bravers back then, unless you had a pocket SCH.

Can't relate, I got BF like 95% of my games, with or without the premades I used to run with.

[Niroken]

We might not get a clearer picture until after the Mogtome event. But agree, given the complaints about FL (including from me), the queue times suggest it's popular. Whether that popularity is driven mostly by XP and rewards is harder to determine.

If you look at Rival Wings outside of mogtome, that is what I would expect Frontlines to look like if it wasn't added to Duty Roulette.