What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

Man, if I got a nickel for every time someone told me to go play another game for criticizing FFXIV's story. Some people just can't grasp the idea that the game has other redeeming qualities that make me want to stay subbed and play it.

Yeah, I mostly invested in the game for the sake of the story but I like my house and it's one of the few pieces of content to be updated with each and every patch...

I don't hate the PvP in the game, either. So I indulge that frequently as well.

[Swordsman]

Yeah, I mostly invested in the game for the sake of the story but I like my house and it's one of the few pieces of content to be updated with each and every patch...

I don't hate the PvP in the game, either. So I indulge that frequently as well.

Yeah, pvp is really fun despite issues with the netcode. I think CC and Frontlines are great. If SE were to ever fix FFXIV's netcode I think it could become a pretty competitive esport.

[BRVV]

Page 851, story still needs to be talked about I guess.

If posts like this and the hate towards criticism would be deleted it might have less than 200

The vast majority of RPGs and even FF games don't have death among the major protagonists and aren't considered inferior games.
You claimed that FFXII is your favorite FF game but it has just 2 minor character deaths

Weird example imho. Vaan's brother and Ashe's husband both die. Their deaths significantly impact the decisions of at least those 2 (Vaan & Ashe).

and all but 2 minor "protagonist-aligned" characters survive the main course of the game

Reks and Rasler are far from "minor" in how they impacted the setting and story. I am actually questioning what a character has to do or be in order for you to be labeled "major".

I don't see the point of killing off characters when its not necessary coming from the playerbase, that is the story writer's personal preference if its needed for some reason.

FFXIV is not written first though. You make it sound like some writer comes up with the exp story and everything else is made afterwards according to it. That has not been the case for any FF if i remember correctly. They could hire me as a writer, i could kill off Scion#4 and be ordererd to change that because that scion is a fan favorite and will all across the marketing.

From what little can be gleaned from information we have on Dawntrail, it seems there may be a schism among the Scions coming up anyway.

Just like how they parted in EW? Sry for not being to optimistic about that actually being a conflict.

Fran and Balthier send the rest of the cast off while explosions are happening all around them as the Bahamut crashes but their "sacrifice" is undone right after when the Strahl is stolen back by them a year later and they show up in the sequel with no explanation with how they survived. Y'shtola at least gets healed or wooshed back into existence on screen.
Rasler dies after a minute of screentime in the intro movie. Reks is a sacrificial pawn for the tutorial prologue and we find out later in the game that he doesn't even die on-screen and wastes away while convalescing from his stab wound sometime in between the prologue and the actual start of the game.

So according to you:
It's bad if
- a character survives something without explanation (with you there) but NOT when they are just magically appearing again - though mentioned... what weird take is this?
- a character death doesn't matter if it happens early???
- a character death doesn't count when you at first think he died during battle even though he died through trauma???

Balthier is the one who sent the mail or am i wrong?

You seem REALLY pushy about all of this. Almost like you made up your result first and phrased everything else later. By your logic Papalymo's death is meaningless also, just fyi.

We know they're sticking around because of the trust and duty support systems now

They added Haurchefant as duty support for the Vault... so you might want to think about that again

I never played 4 nor do I really intend to ever play 4, normally me not playing an older FF game doesn’t reduce my excitement of the game; I just don’t know what a particular boss calls back to, in this instance I feel like I was actively punished for not playing 4

Same

So now the void is lost as a potential future interesting plot point because if we go back it’s only going to be either “void restoration” that probably won’t actually go anywhere

Will you look at that: a new grindfest for crafters & gatherers

1. We have many NPC's with the sole purpose of Checkbox marking. No story telling or worldbuilding, just existing as "end in itself".
2. Endwalker ? More like "NO-Consequence-Walker". Many things happen without changing or shaping the world.
3. Repetition of outcomes and of gained information as if we would not listen and need a refresher EVERY 5 MINUTES.
4. Flat charchter arcs without progress, many even with regressing to old behavior without notice or reason.
5. We, as the protagonist, are not necessary for the story... at all we could be dead and still it would end up the way it is.
6. Deus Ex machina. ALL THE TIME. Here and there, its ok but damn Endwalker is based on this.
7. inconsistent story telling: All is dreadfull but my little pony with the power of friendship is the next logical step or "oh my god the stakes, we could loose so much" but here is Pudding.. funny ... haha.
7a. No real villains.... almost all and everybody is "not so bad" and has a redemption arc.
8. Almost no Worldbuilding in Endwalker itself. The most of it is already told through old expansions as if they had nothing to add.
9. Powerlevel... Where are we ? So what is our purpose again? It looks like we went from "we are Superman" to "we are Jimmy" and oscillate between those two for no reason.
10. Pacing. We go to learn something new and every aspect of it dragged out for no reason.

1. Yup. They need more growth
2. Hard hitting this one. When the "end of the world" barely has any consequences, what will?
3. Weirdly enough the obscure lore doesn't really get mentioned. I genuinely expected them to repeat who all the dragons are but they never did.
4. Sadly yes. I think they fear change so no one looses "their favorite waifu" / "greates character". It's hard to change characters that have been in a story for years. We know them. If they change we may or may not like the change.
5. Just some WoL doing what crystal mommy wants
6. 100% Would be funny if a villain would get those Deus Ex machina dispensers
7. Idk why we need to be basically friends with the villains. Other media from japan has clearly evil characters. Those still have funs and all those... fanarts... they don't need to have a redemption arc.
8. Not so sure. Not for the zones on the planet but on Elpis and a bit on Ultima Thule.
9. & 10. Simply aggree.

~Rest is Ren:

I know a lot of people like to hate things, and I know others don't but simply have different tastes. And that's fine. But honestly, it's not healthy to harbor so much pent up hate over things.

A lot of the posts before this are civil and calm. Why do you think they are hateful? Critique = hate??? Seems like you are starting to gaslight. If all you wanted was claim your opinion why the weird "haters" rant? Why do you never do this on topics you aggree with?

I'm sorry you didn't all enjoy it, but I'm reminded of that saying "You can't please all of the people all of the time." Hope you enjoy the future better than you have the present.

Thanks. Oh but i already like the present :3 Lot's of great stories. Like a book i read this year.

You are allowed to voice your opinion Ren and you are allowed to be called out for gaslighting.

Reducing this whole topic as "not being critical feedback" based soley on it's title while being on page 859 is quite something. Do you always judge books by their covers?

The "best" part about Ren's posts are when he "quotes" stuff no one has said and replies to it. Making up strawmen.

You're trying to shut down people offering their own feedback, engaging in blatant double standards, rampant bad faith, and refusing to engage on the topic, trying instead to disparage people who disagree with you.

"as to why certain posters never seem to address the actual points being raised and instead resort to either personal attacks or go off on irrelevant tangents unrelated to the subject being discussed"

You mean the very thing you're doing right now?

Do you even realize this 100% fits you? I'm sorry but a lot of your posts have strawmen arguments and gaslighting. Idk why they do but it's like their most visible feature by now. Want to find an insulting text? Wait for the Ren post. You can create rational arguments. I've read it. Idk why you don't stick to that.

Let's look at your intial post again, shall we?

As respectfully as I can say this:

I disagree.

While some parts of the story I didn't like, the story itself I liked overall, some parts of it I liked tremendously, and now with the resolution, I feel it was a journey well taken. Things are nicely tied up and very much leaning into the feeling of rest and reprieve ahead.

So far so good. Maybe others don't see it this way (like not feeling it resolved that well) but that's just your opinion . Wait... there's more...

I know a lot of people like to hate things, and I know others don't but simply have different tastes. And that's fine. But honestly, it's not healthy to harbor so much pent up hate over things.

Weird... were are those hate posts? Why write this?

As for me, I feel the journey was worthwhile, and I like where it ended up in 6.5, and I like where it seems to be going.

Your opinion: great

I'm sorry you didn't all enjoy it, but I'm reminded of that saying "You can't please all of the people all of the time." Hope you enjoy the future better than you have the present.

Just like Healer changes. You can't please everyone. Why is one allowed to be given critique and one isn't?

[Renathras]

Sooo... Renathras you agree EW has its flaws but ... what ? I dont understand your viewpoint. What is it now ? EW good, bad or ugly ? Critique wrong, right, only form a selected few or a form to be filled, a programm i need to sign in ? *sigh*

Setting aside this doesn't seem like a good faith question and treating it like one anyway (at the very least, it's the only one that is a question/something being asked to talk about rather than insulting):

I agree it has flaws. It's not perfect. I've always said it's not perfect. But not perfect is a far cry from dying, doomed, or the worst thing since anti-sliced bread.

My point, if any is to be had here, is that critique is good/right, and from anyone, if offered in respectful ways, acknowledging as fair and valid those who disagree (instead of attacking them), laid out and explained (both what was disliked and why), and without hyperbole or insult.

Is that a hard thing to understand?

Well, I could have predicted that coming from a mile away. Let nobody say I didn't try.

/facepalm

Okay, serious question: Reading your two posts I quoted, you honestly are saying you DID NOT take what I said as a personal insult and fly off the handle - the thing you're accusing me of doing?

At this point it seems there deflecting and saying everyone else are the ones taking offense at everything and feeling attacked. I don't think any amount of help will change anything. I thought you were being pretty helpful and not attacking him in anyway.

That's been their tactic everytime I actually see 'em lol.

Good thing internet never forgets & credentials cross checking always helps.

It's funny he sees everyone else as the bad guys but never looks at themselves and why people respond to them the way they do. He acts like a victim and goes on angry rants on people who in no way attacks him then when they reply back deflects after reading into things the wrong way and calls people names when no one calls him any. People have gone out of there way to even be helpful to him but sees it as an attack then attacks the people helping him. It seems he is even using being former ex military as some sort of way to hopefully get people to shut up and not respond or shut down any sort of debate.

Considering you both go at me in every thread we're in together, neither of you are particularly neutral observers here...

I'd also like to point out something: Talking about someone present in the conversation with you in the third person while berating them and their actions is generally considered rude. In case you were unaware.

.

Come to think of it, why am I bothering with this? This is stupid. If you guys want to be childish and rude - while saying someone else is childish and rude - I suppose that's on you exposing yourselves as such. "You shouldn't act like you're attacked all the time, Ren. Now don't say anything while we talk about you behind your back to your front in disparaging ways."

You're right about one thing, though, Rein: The internet is forever.

.

He agrees it has flaws but yet were not allowed to say anything otherwise were supposedly haters and being angry people for pointing them out.

Ah, yes, something I've literally never said, implied, and have said is NOT true every time I'm accused of saying it. Don't you get tied of lying all the time?

~Rest is Ren:

I wish I could say I'm honored, but...

A lot of the posts before this are civil and calm. Why do you think they are hateful?

Where did I say they were?

Critique = hate???

Where did I say it was?

Seems like you are starting to gaslight.

No, that's what you and everyone saying "Ren said all critique is just hate!!". Hell, if I believed that, why would I offer MY OWN CRITIQUES? Surely you don't think that I think MY OWN critiques are hate? So clearly I don't hold the position that "all critiques = hate", now do I?

If all you wanted was claim your opinion why the weird "haters" rant?

How is one sentence a rant? Further, a sentence that didn't end there? Did you not read the rest?

and I know others don't but simply have different tastes. And that's fine.

Seriously, how is it that not ONE of the people harassing me over this has managed to READ THE REST OF THE SAME SENTENCE THEY ARE QUOTING? It's literally THE SAME SENTENCE, and many of you even have quoted/referenced it directly. How are you unable to read that part? What do you think that part MEANS now that it's being pointed out to you?

Why do you never do this on topics you aggree with?

Because I don't do it on topics I disagree with? Again, you're making up something I didn't do and insisting I did it then asking why I didn't do it in other cases. The answer is: I'm not even doing it in the cases you're accusing me of doing it in.

I don't know how many ways I can say "I didn't do that" before you folks will realize "Oooooh. Ren didn't do the thing we're all insisting he did."

Thanks. Oh but i already like the present :3 Lot's of great stories. Like a book i read this year.

Great! I'm happy for you. I meant, though, in case it wasn't obvious, that I hope the next story arc/story telling in FFXIV is more to your liking.

You are allowed to voice your opinion Ren

Thank you for giving me permission to voice my opinion.

and you are allowed to be called out for gaslighting.

Yeah, the problem is, when people "call me out" for gaslighting...when I'm not gaslighting. When people are making up something that isn't happening and then accusing me with that crime, that's wrong. Making up a lie about someone and telling everyone the lie is slander/libel and is wrong.

...and this is setting aside the reality that most people don't know what the definition of the word gaslighting is and use it incorrectly as a generic insult on someone/something, kinda like how people use things like "word salad" to mean "thing I didn't want to read" more often than something that is actually difficult to parse or understand. Gaslighting:

Primary: "psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator"
Secondary: "the act or practice of grossly misleading someone especially for one's own advantage"
Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting

Given I'm not engaging in "psychological manipulation" to cause people to question the validity of their own thoughts and perception of reality, that one doesn't hold. And given I didn't say "all critique is hate", the second definition does not hold here, either. No matter how many times it's done, accusing someone of gaslighting who isn't gaslighting isn't calling them out, it's insulting them and attacking them inappropriately.

Reducing this whole topic as "not being critical feedback" based soley on it's title while being on page 859 is quite something. Do you always judge books by their covers?

Out of curiosity, where did I make that statement? Specifically, what was I referring to?

Do you even realize this 100% fits you?

It doesn't, that's the problem.

Want to find an insulting text? Wait for the Ren post.

And yet, you seem blind to the insults against me, including those you yourself are employing...

You can create rational arguments. I've read it. Idk why you don't stick to that.

In simple terms, I get frustrated when I make a detailed rational argument only for A FREAKIN DOZEN PEOPLE to take one line out of it, ignore the rest, and say "YOU SAID ALL DOGS GO TO HELL!! CLEARLY YOU HATE PUPPIES!! HOW DARE!!!!". It's insanely frustrating when EVERY post I make has to go through a fine filter of perfection or it will be attacked because literally every word will be scrutinized and no stone will go unturned in the effort to take at least one sentence out of context to accuse me of saying something I didn't just so the respondents can ignore literally every point and rational argument I presented and then go into a circle jerk of talking bad about me to each other (whether or not I respond), dogpiling on me, upvoting each others' comments, and generally being abject jerks to me when I DO respond (and abjectly rude if I do not). All to avoid any actual points I present and effort to silence dissent. And, of course, insisting that not one of them is saying something bad or insulting about me in the process of...doing that. A LOT of that. And that when I suggest anyone is attacking me, I'm TOTALLY wrong and no one is.

Btw: That would be the definition of gaslighting - prolonged and continuous psychological manipulation to convince the victim to question his own thoughts or view of reality. "People are attacking me!" <While and as part of attacking me> "No they aren't, it's all in your head." That actually DOES meet the definition of gaslighting.

The worst part is when I point this out and am called defensive or "playing the victim", and the worst worst, when the other person accuses me of just not making any rational point to begin with. Like why should I even bother? You tell me!

Let's look at your intial post again, shall we?

Ah, yes, so you can ignore the very thing you quote. But lets:

So far so good. Maybe others don't see it this way (like not feeling it resolved that well) but that's just your opinion . Wait... there's more...

...well, thank you for that, at least.

Weird... were are those hate posts? Why write this?

"all those"?

In your own words, tell me, what does THIS mean:

and I know others don't but simply have different tastes. And that's fine.

Your opinion: great

Thank...you...

The "best" part about Ren's posts are when he "quotes" stuff no one has said and replies to it. Making up strawmen.

My god...how can you be this lacking in self-awareness? You're literally quoting me saying things, accusing me of saying what I DIDN'T say, and ignoring what I did say. This is literally what you're doing, Making up strawmen. I've never personally known anyone so lacking in self-awareness before.

I'm sorry but a lot of your posts have strawmen arguments and gaslighting.

/sigh

You mean like all of what you're doing here?

You've been accusing me of saying things I didn't say - strawman - and gaslighting me.

Idk why they do but it's like their most visible feature by now.

Again, I'm literally commenting on your post here doing that. It's like your most visible feature at the moment.

Just like Healer changes. You can't please everyone. Why is one allowed to be given critique and one isn't?

Both are.

Serious question:

When have I, me, myself, personally ever said "critique is not allowed"?

At what point, in what post, have I EVER said those words?

And no, "You said it was hate!!" is not saying it was not allowed. And if THAT is your answer:

When have I, me, myself, personally ever said "ALL critique is hate"?

...and wouldn't that mean I was calling MYSELF a hater considering I have offered critiques of my own? How does it make sense in your mind that I'm holding a definition whereby I'm accusing myself of being a hater alongside the rest of you? Does that make sense?

.

/sigh

No one's perfect, me no more than any other Human. But I'm not the ONLY one that makes mistakes. And it's not for lack of trying not to. But when some people are damned and determined to find something, anything, even if they have to make it up, to attack one over, it gets REALLLLLLLLY old. This is hardly the first time I've asked "When have I said X" and people not been able to actually provide anything but snarky one-liner answers despite having accused me of doing so.

I can't make perfect posts. Not possible.

But I'm generally not trying to be insulting or antagonistic to people. I only shift into that mode when I'm getting attacked - a lot, and unfairly - and after I've first tried a couple of posts of reasoned explanation, clarification, and polite rebuttal. Note after my first post here, despite being accused of calling everyone haters, my first responses were politely saying that I didn't say that. Though I will use people's words in reply to them if they fit their positions as well or better than my own.

Only when I was called a liar and told yes I was saying what I had just said I didn't, and then had someone else harping on about me being a bad faith gaslighter, did I get upset. It can be difficult to maintain composure when literally a dozen people are constantly harping on you and inventing ways to take everything you said as an insult and strawmanning and gaslighting you over and over again.

And tell me, which of you wouldn't?

I'm not MORE perfect than any of you are. So if you'd be upset being treated that way, you shouldn't expect that I wouldn't be. And when my first repose is explanation and discussion, and I only shift to antagonism after my efforts at politeness being roundly rebuffed, then perhaps it's possible I'm not the bad guy, it's the people rebuffing those attempts at olive branches that are.

...but I'm tired of saying THIS, too. As this hasn't been the first time, either...

[Banriikku]

No, it is a serious question because to my understanding you were trying brush of criticism as "hate train", if i put it in a short term. This is seems not to be the case after this answer but your wording in some of your posting is not "easy to read" or can be easily missunderstood.
I think there are ppl that are too much but these are a very small group that can be divided into angry everything, oposition for the sake of it and trolls. Almost none of these post here.

Also i NEVER SAID it is doomed almost no one is saying that... those who are need to explain how and why.
Something on the side: ALL MMOS THAT ARE DYING, die slow and painfull. It is never fast except for the scams. If FF14 would be dying it would take 5 to 10 years (in my opinion probably more like 15 years if ever, they will milk away and just let it run as cheap as possible), atleast, to sever shutdown.

But EW is bad and it was NEVER this bad, except for 1.0 and even there was a solid story. Which is missing in EW in all regards. The ideas and concepts are good but the execution is so poor that i would take ARR in all its slowness or pre patch HW slug or even the SB steppe nonsense again over this "void story" or "myths of the realm" or "my little loporits friendship laser". Gameplay wise we have the same since ages and thats the problem but it works even if its stale, so far away from dying or collapsing.

To the point "insluting":
Thats a thing here ? I did not read all post but that should not be a thing... at all. People are snaky, salty or passive aggresive but thats not insulting. But maybe i am just a lucky Lala.

[Nebelheim]

No, it is a serious question because to my understanding you were trying brush of criticism as "hate train", if i put it in a short term. This is seems not to be the case after this answer but your wording in some of your posting is not "easy to read" or can be easily missunderstood.
I think there are ppl that are too much but these are a very small group that can be divided into angry everything, oposition for the sake of it and trolls. Almost none of these post here.

Also i NEVER SAID it is doomed almost no one is saying that... those who are need to explain how and why.
Something on the side: ALL MMOS THAT ARE DYING, die slow and painfull. It is never fast except for the scams. If FF14 would be dying it would take 5 to 10 years (in my opinion probably more like 15 years if ever, they will milk away and just let it run as cheap as possible), atleast, to sever shutdown.

But EW is bad and it was NEVER this bad, except for 1.0 and even there was a solid story. Which is missing in EW in all regards. The ideas and concepts are good but the execution is so poor that i would take ARR in all its slowness or pre patch HW slug or even the SB steppe nonsense again over this "void story" or "myths of the realm" or "my little loporits friendship laser". Gameplay wise we have the same since ages and thats the problem but it works even if its stale, so far away from dying or collapsing.

To the point "insluting":
Thats a thing here ? I did not read all post but that should not be a thing... at all. People are snaky, salty or passive aggresive but thats not insulting. But maybe i am just a lucky Lala.

He is just going to keep whining about how everyone is out to get him and attacking him and deflecting things because everyone is negative and hateful when no one was even being nasty or angry or hateful whatsoever the last 866 pages. He saw this 866 page thread as so negative he made a parody thread as a "joke" to counteract all the "negativity" and "bad faith" arguments in this thread. I think it's time for him to take a break from the forums if everything is perceived as an attack on him or find a way to get some help because thinking everyone is out to get you and that debates are personal attacks against him is not a healthy mindset to have.

[BRVV]

When have I, me, myself, personally ever said "critique is not allowed"? At what point, in what post, have I EVER said those words?

It NEEDS TO be those EXACT words? So implications mean nothing then? Should i be as condescending as you then?

"You said it was hate!!" is not saying it was not allowed. And if THAT is your answer:

I *actually* never said that. Look it up. Why do you keep putting words in other peoples mouths? Really weak arguments when you have to CHANGE what others were saying. Should i comment like this:
"People should be murdered" - Wow Ren that's quite a hottake. I don't think why you believe this. I am certaintly not on board with that statement.
- Notice how meaningless it is?

When have I, me, myself, personally ever said "ALL critique is hate"?

Only story critique and only "negative" ones. Or more easily: those that aren't on "your side" are all haters. That is what you imply. Google that last word before you type up that you didn't write that exact sentence.

/sigh

Since you critique people's face expressions: That sigh was to give the impression we bore you and are difficult to reason with right? Maybe if a bunch of people think that about YOU it's the YOU that's the problem. I could mirror you more. You might not last that long, than again my nerves might not last long either.
Trying to reason with a gaslighter like you who puts words in people's mouths is actually really /sigh

No one's perfect, me no more than any other Human. But I'm not the ONLY one that makes mistakes. And it's not for lack of trying not to. But when some people are damned and determined to find something, anything, even if they have to make it up, to attack one over, it gets REALLLLLLLLY old. This is hardly the first time I've asked "When have I said X" and people not been able to actually provide anything but snarky one-liner answers despite having accused me of doing so.

Yes you are so much more mature than those people. Is that why you made that Dawntrail troll copy of this thread?

I can't make perfect posts. Not possible.

One with just your opinion on the game and no snarky remarks, again gaslighting and strawman reasoning would totally suffice. If you stay concise those posts are actually easier to write.

But I'm generally not trying to be insulting or antagonistic to people. I only shift into that mode when I'm getting attacked

Why is your very first post in this chain than full of attacks? Who provoked you? YOU started it.

Only when I was called a liar and told yes I was saying what I had just said I didn't, and then had someone else harping on about me being a bad faith gaslighter, did I get upset. It can be difficult to maintain composure when literally a dozen people are constantly harping on you and inventing ways to take everything you said as an insult and strawmanning and gaslighting you over and over again.

Sucks i know. I know because YOU do this to a lot of people, like me.

I'm not MORE perfect than any of you are.

No you are fine the way god intended... or something <insert your beliefs>. More importantly: You are having and obvious hard time staying on topic. Always resorting to backhand insults, then trying to reason that you didn't insult anyone just because it was slightly indirect.
If i wrote "Ren is a hater" that would be an insult but writing "I know a lot of people like to hate things, and I know others don't but simply have different tastes" also is. No one is getting fooled. You are very specific in where you put those words. In no topic you generally aggree with you post something like that.

And when my first repose is explanation and discussion (...)...but I'm tired of saying THIS, too. As this hasn't been the first time, either...

Your first response after YOUR first insult. Rich take. I am also tired. If you can't change than maybe i should just block you and accept that you are a deeply toxic person.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

I really liked the Endwalker story as it came complete and told the story it wanted to tell. Unlike other MMOs that sell you the story piecemeal and over a long period of time to retain subs.

[Supersnow845]

I really liked the Endwalker story as it came complete and told the story it wanted to tell. Unlike other MMOs that sell you the story piecemeal and over a long period of time to retain subs.

I mean the Z+H story has taken 13 years to tell so not sure what you mean by this

[Striker44]

I mean the Z+H story has taken 13 years to tell so not sure what you mean by this

That's the overall arc. The story of EW itself was told entirely in 6.0, with the 6.x patches creating their own separate arc leading to DT. (Compare to previous expansions where the main story arc of an expansion took the entirety of its patch sequence to tell.)

A lot of the posts before this are civil and calm. Why do you think they are hateful? Critique = hate??? Seems like you are starting to gaslight. If all you wanted was claim your opinion why the weird "haters" rant? Why do you never do this on topics you aggree with?

I'd have to disagree. The very title of the thread itself is charged and tries to pass off a personal opinion as if it's magically some kind of fact. That's not how you generate productive discussion. And at various points throughout this thread's life, it's been nothing but a hate train demeaning the developers and then going after anyone who dares to say they enjoy it.