What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Absimiliard]

He's got more important things to do. After all, he graduated top of his class in the Navy SEALs.

[Theodric]

I'll leave it to other posters to come to their own conclusions. It isn't possible for me to be everybody's particular favoured cup of tea and that's completely fine. I am not the poster who, in numerous threads, has capitalised and italicised random words throughout their lengthy posts. Nor am I the poster who has implied through weasel wording that if someone is critical of the game's story then they are prone to being hateful.

I'm just a regular guy born and raised in the UK who happens to be posting on a video game forum in his spare time. It really isn't any deeper than that and if, for whatever reason, you believe that this is all some sort of personal crusade and conspiracy against you then all I can say to that is that you are deeply mistaken.

I'd claim to be surprised that a post simply pointing out a retcon in the game's story caused such forced controversy though that would be a lie - because as mentioned in a previous post, here, to be precise:

The OP has long since stopped posting in this thread, which in turn became a refuge for those of us critical of the story given that many of us have been dealing with unhinged stalking, death threats, sexual assault threats, attempts at character assassination and bizarre insinuations from various self proclaimed 'lore enthusiasts' who have proven many times that they will do and say whatever in order to attempt to silence and dismiss anyone even remotely critical of the game's story. Given that you have your own 'stalker' who went as far as to create a parody account to ridicule you I imagine you're well aware of the lengths some here go in order to discredit and harass those they disagree with.

Many who post with regularity within this thread are well aware of the tactics deployed by this point.


Furthermore, here's an older post of mine touching on a similar issue:

At the end of the day, it's just a video game. One many of us are varying degrees of passionate about, certainly, though I personally don't care for rivalries to form over something that is entirely fictional. As such, my stance has ever been to agree to disagree where common ground cannot be found. I don't care for endless arguments over morality and I'd like to think I've made it perfectly clear that if anyone has a problem with me, then they're very welcome to come and talk it out in a civil manner.

I like working out and discussing the 'how' and 'why' things happen in the way that they do in any given story or historical event, though my personal preferences drift towards characters and factions that have lofty stakes over those that have everything work out to their benefit most of the time.

One thing I noticed, however, was that some pretty spiteful and nasty accusations were aimed at anyone who ever dared to speak up in favour of the antagonists. This included death threats, homophobic comments and other unpleasant elements. Given that the offending posts were deleted, however, then such will have to be taken with a pinch of salt - though I'd like to think those who are being genuine and who have been around for a while will be aware of what I'm speaking of. Especially since some of the offending comments leaked into Reddit, Twitter and certain Discord servers.

The most fascinating thing I observed was that certain posters would repeatedly launch thinly veiled attacks and sometimes direct personal attacks at fans of the antagonists, implying all manner of horrible things about their person and real world morality. When finally those being assaulted had enough, even a minor quip in response would be treated as some deeply horrific crime and personal attack.

I will say that things have improved somewhat since then. Right around the same time that the game itself revealed that, yes, actually there was more to the Ascians and Garleans all along.

Ultimately any given individual is going to have their personal preferences and interests. I've never suggested that anyone has to like specific characters or factions. I only ask that the same courtesy is extended to others in turn.

In closing, I'd also note that the game attracts players from many different countries, cultures, backgrounds and belief systems. We all have different life experiences, so that is going to influence what we like and we don't like.

Here's the source for that particular post, incidentally posted back in 2021:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5778011

Perhaps that sheds some further light on the situation, since it's been an issue for some time now for even the most polite critique or commentary of the game's story to result in some utterly bizarre reactions at best and spiteful insults and insinuations at the worst. To be blunt, it isn't my responsibility to identify or tiptoe around the personal pet peeves of particular individuals. The only responsibility anyone here has is to abide by the established terms of service/code of conduct - they're not beholden to the whims or specific posters. I certainly do my best to be polite and civil, though that doesn't equal being a pushover and I'm going to take a stand in response to...whatever this is meant to be.

[NanaWiloh]

He's got more important things to do. After all, he graduated top of his class in the Navy SEALs.

*strokes beard* I would be very impressed if that were true given how difficult and demanding Seal training is. :P

[aveyond-dreams]

If nothing else it has always mystified me reading defenses of Endwalker's story because it shows me how much media people actually consume FFXIV and whether they do so at a superficial or deeper level - as in did they only play the first hour or watch the ending of these other games or did they actually play through the whole thing. The endless debates revolving around character deaths were quite a sight to behold as it was obvious which players paid attention to other FF games and those that didn't, and the latter often tend to try and justify Endwalker's terrible approach to character sacrifice and death.

[Lunaxia]

All I will say is that while I'm always appreciative of people who speak up on my behalf, some people are walking, talking red flags and when they reveal themselves as such, it's better to walk away and let them get on with it than wrap yourself up in trying to engage with that sort of behaviour. They're beyond reason or understanding, they have their pre-set notions of the world and themselves, and you can't do much to change it. Sometimes the desire to explain yourself can be powerful, but trying to use logic where this none rarely leads anywhere productive, or worse, leaves you feeling tired or frustrated.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

6.5 was a rough patch for me; I feel like they got really close to a lot of good things, but just before executing them well, they decided to abandon them. I'm not even going to address the first part of the story, as it's just kicking water and talking to NPCs for the sake of doing it.

Golbez/Durante: Their story arc went full circle, which was great. While they were the ones reaching out their hands at first, in the end Zero would reach out her hand, which is great, but the idea of Durante fully casting aside his character? I feel like they have returned him to at least his own name; "you are Golbez now" felt like such a strange line.

Trial: Very flashy and felt pretty good, the slow-moving laser that happens at the same time as the black hole was visually really nice, but why was there nothing attached to the fight? At like 20%, he glows red, so I guess that's something. This is made worse as, instantly after the fight, you see him fly backwards and charge a massive attack. So why wasn't that in the fight if you already invested time into it?

4 Fiends: This was an amazing setup for a solo duty, 4 weak lords jumping in and out while you fight Golbez? It would've been great.

Zeromus: He had no time to shine, our boy was done dirty for the sake of rapping up the void story.

Not letting go: Seeing Zero and Durante's arc finished, they decide to stay, which is perfect because it finishes their arc on a high note, but there had to be the nixie ... because god forbid we let go of a character we can dig up for 7.5 in which we ask them how they're doing.

They were so close this time, granted the first half of all patches is becoming a meme the 2nd half had real promise.

[Nayukhuut]

Well, I just finished the MSQ and I am annoyed again. It's not because I don't agree with helping the Thirteenth, because I do. It's because we are still speaking morals that I no longer think we embody in the game. We talk about how no one is beyond saving, and how everyone deserves a chance to fight for their world, and how it is wrong to decide the fate of an entire species, and I agree. But then the story goes and completely instills Venat as a hero even though she did all those things. Not even the Void is beyond saving, but those Ancients needed to die, apparently. -_-

I feel like a hypocrite when I do anything heroic now, and it sucks. So many ways they could have made the horrors Venat committed not taste as bad, and they did none of them. They just full on expect us to be okay with the genocide of an entire people, and the deaths of all the shards that came after, because it served our goals in the end and they keep telling is Venat is the good guy (she is not).

I just... I can't get behind the erasure of an entire species because they didn't align with how she thought they should act. She wanted new life to flourish and she thought they were overly reliant on Zodiark? Okay, so she destroys ALL life so that it has to start again, shoves in her own gods we have to pray to elsewise the worlds combine back together, and gives us a moral code she approves of to follow. The story routinely makes a point of telling us that nothing is without hope, and that nothing is impossible... but then it turns around and says expect these people.

And sorry, I know I am ranting again.

[Theodric]

Hah, don't worry a lot of us feel the same way!

Speaking of which, I suppose shortly after a new patch is a good time to drop an invite to the Discord server that came about due to this thread's existence as a place to discuss the problems with the game's story:

https://discord.gg/9kP2e7b5G

[Nayukhuut]

Hah, don't worry a lot of us feel the same way!

Speaking of which, I suppose shortly after a new patch is a good time to drop an invite to the Discord server that came about due to this thread's existence as a place to discuss the problems with the game's story:

https://discord.gg/9kP2e7b5G

Thank you kindly. Soon as I get to my proper computer I will make sure to join that.

[Renathras]

All I will say is that while I'm always appreciative of people who speak up on my behalf, some people are walking, talking red flags and when they reveal themselves as such, it's better to walk away and let them get on with it than wrap yourself up in trying to engage with that sort of behaviour. They're beyond reason or understanding, they have their pre-set notions of the world and themselves, and you can't do much to change it. Sometimes the desire to explain yourself can be powerful, but trying to use logic where this none rarely leads anywhere productive, or worse, leaves you feeling tired or frustrated.

Yeah, fair enough. You're right in that I can't convince people beyond reason or understanding. It is just so frustrating when people slander you and a bunch of people seem to agree with them, so it pushes that strong impulse to defend and explain yourself. I've gotten to where I'll try once, if they continue, I'll try again, then I just try to not keep engaging. The problem is when someone else takes up that banner and several others join and lie about what just happened, so at that point I feel like I have to recap, explain why that person was wrong AND the series of posts that the latecomer seems to want to ignore (in this case, the insults).

On the one hand, I should probably just ignore all of it. But then if I never say anything in my defense or clarify my original posts being misinterpreted, then that slander hangs unchallenged in the air, which is also not really palatable.

Then again, even the most antagonistic posts against me only get ~15 likes or so, so maybe there are just 15 or so haters and no one else cares. I suppose I can take some comfort in that. But it's so exhausting when even a simple "I disagree" - or worse, like in the Zepla thread, where I literally said I agreed with her - leads to PAGES of attacks on me. That's not right nor healthy on the part of the bullies doing it.

But maybe you're right and such people are beyond reason. I'm more concerned with what other people who aren't them think, but I'm going to start limiting myself to one clarification reply and, if the person still refuses to see reason, moving on. I'm tired of being accused of saying something I didn't, posting "No, I said THIS and meant THIS, not that", only for the person to insist they can read my mind and I was saying what THEY think I said anyway. It's the worst form of putting words in someone's mouth when they continue to do it even after I've gone on the record to set said record straight that their initial interpretation was not correct or my own intent.

But yeah, your advice is good. Easier said than done, but sage.

*strokes beard* I would be very impressed if that were true given how difficult and demanding Seal training is. :P

That individual's attempt at ridicule aside, no, wasn't a SEAL.

Though them posting it is weird, since I don't recall making any claims about being in the Navy here (I may have mentioned military, but I tend not to be overly specific), but never my training pipeline. I think they're confusing me for someone else.

That said, my demanding training was...well, SEALs are a combination of physical and mental. My school as the most intellectually difficult in the Navy, I guess? Rather not say more - owing to the fact I know it will just lead to ridicule - but if you're curious, look up what big Navy school is in Charleston, South Carolina. Opposite coast from BUDS in Cali. Not The Citadel, the other one. Won't say any more than that.