What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Renathras]

Sooo... Renathras you agree EW has its flaws but ... what ? I dont understand your viewpoint. What is it now ? EW good, bad or ugly ? Critique wrong, right, only form a selected few or a form to be filled, a programm i need to sign in ? *sigh*

Setting aside this doesn't seem like a good faith question and treating it like one anyway (at the very least, it's the only one that is a question/something being asked to talk about rather than insulting):

I agree it has flaws. It's not perfect. I've always said it's not perfect. But not perfect is a far cry from dying, doomed, or the worst thing since anti-sliced bread.

My point, if any is to be had here, is that critique is good/right, and from anyone, if offered in respectful ways, acknowledging as fair and valid those who disagree (instead of attacking them), laid out and explained (both what was disliked and why), and without hyperbole or insult.

Is that a hard thing to understand?

Well, I could have predicted that coming from a mile away. Let nobody say I didn't try.

/facepalm

Okay, serious question: Reading your two posts I quoted, you honestly are saying you DID NOT take what I said as a personal insult and fly off the handle - the thing you're accusing me of doing?

At this point it seems there deflecting and saying everyone else are the ones taking offense at everything and feeling attacked. I don't think any amount of help will change anything. I thought you were being pretty helpful and not attacking him in anyway.

That's been their tactic everytime I actually see 'em lol.

Good thing internet never forgets & credentials cross checking always helps.

It's funny he sees everyone else as the bad guys but never looks at themselves and why people respond to them the way they do. He acts like a victim and goes on angry rants on people who in no way attacks him then when they reply back deflects after reading into things the wrong way and calls people names when no one calls him any. People have gone out of there way to even be helpful to him but sees it as an attack then attacks the people helping him. It seems he is even using being former ex military as some sort of way to hopefully get people to shut up and not respond or shut down any sort of debate.

Considering you both go at me in every thread we're in together, neither of you are particularly neutral observers here...

I'd also like to point out something: Talking about someone present in the conversation with you in the third person while berating them and their actions is generally considered rude. In case you were unaware.

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Come to think of it, why am I bothering with this? This is stupid. If you guys want to be childish and rude - while saying someone else is childish and rude - I suppose that's on you exposing yourselves as such. "You shouldn't act like you're attacked all the time, Ren. Now don't say anything while we talk about you behind your back to your front in disparaging ways."

You're right about one thing, though, Rein: The internet is forever.

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He agrees it has flaws but yet were not allowed to say anything otherwise were supposedly haters and being angry people for pointing them out.

Ah, yes, something I've literally never said, implied, and have said is NOT true every time I'm accused of saying it. Don't you get tied of lying all the time?

~Rest is Ren:

I wish I could say I'm honored, but...

A lot of the posts before this are civil and calm. Why do you think they are hateful?

Where did I say they were?

Critique = hate???

Where did I say it was?

Seems like you are starting to gaslight.

No, that's what you and everyone saying "Ren said all critique is just hate!!". Hell, if I believed that, why would I offer MY OWN CRITIQUES? Surely you don't think that I think MY OWN critiques are hate? So clearly I don't hold the position that "all critiques = hate", now do I?

If all you wanted was claim your opinion why the weird "haters" rant?

How is one sentence a rant? Further, a sentence that didn't end there? Did you not read the rest?

and I know others don't but simply have different tastes. And that's fine.

Seriously, how is it that not ONE of the people harassing me over this has managed to READ THE REST OF THE SAME SENTENCE THEY ARE QUOTING? It's literally THE SAME SENTENCE, and many of you even have quoted/referenced it directly. How are you unable to read that part? What do you think that part MEANS now that it's being pointed out to you?

Why do you never do this on topics you aggree with?

Because I don't do it on topics I disagree with? Again, you're making up something I didn't do and insisting I did it then asking why I didn't do it in other cases. The answer is: I'm not even doing it in the cases you're accusing me of doing it in.

I don't know how many ways I can say "I didn't do that" before you folks will realize "Oooooh. Ren didn't do the thing we're all insisting he did."

Thanks. Oh but i already like the present :3 Lot's of great stories. Like a book i read this year.

Great! I'm happy for you. I meant, though, in case it wasn't obvious, that I hope the next story arc/story telling in FFXIV is more to your liking.

You are allowed to voice your opinion Ren

Thank you for giving me permission to voice my opinion.

and you are allowed to be called out for gaslighting.

Yeah, the problem is, when people "call me out" for gaslighting...when I'm not gaslighting. When people are making up something that isn't happening and then accusing me with that crime, that's wrong. Making up a lie about someone and telling everyone the lie is slander/libel and is wrong.

...and this is setting aside the reality that most people don't know what the definition of the word gaslighting is and use it incorrectly as a generic insult on someone/something, kinda like how people use things like "word salad" to mean "thing I didn't want to read" more often than something that is actually difficult to parse or understand. Gaslighting:

Primary: "psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator"
Secondary: "the act or practice of grossly misleading someone especially for one's own advantage"
Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting

Given I'm not engaging in "psychological manipulation" to cause people to question the validity of their own thoughts and perception of reality, that one doesn't hold. And given I didn't say "all critique is hate", the second definition does not hold here, either. No matter how many times it's done, accusing someone of gaslighting who isn't gaslighting isn't calling them out, it's insulting them and attacking them inappropriately.

Reducing this whole topic as "not being critical feedback" based soley on it's title while being on page 859 is quite something. Do you always judge books by their covers?

Out of curiosity, where did I make that statement? Specifically, what was I referring to?

Do you even realize this 100% fits you?

It doesn't, that's the problem.

Want to find an insulting text? Wait for the Ren post.

And yet, you seem blind to the insults against me, including those you yourself are employing...

You can create rational arguments. I've read it. Idk why you don't stick to that.

In simple terms, I get frustrated when I make a detailed rational argument only for A FREAKIN DOZEN PEOPLE to take one line out of it, ignore the rest, and say "YOU SAID ALL DOGS GO TO HELL!! CLEARLY YOU HATE PUPPIES!! HOW DARE!!!!". It's insanely frustrating when EVERY post I make has to go through a fine filter of perfection or it will be attacked because literally every word will be scrutinized and no stone will go unturned in the effort to take at least one sentence out of context to accuse me of saying something I didn't just so the respondents can ignore literally every point and rational argument I presented and then go into a circle jerk of talking bad about me to each other (whether or not I respond), dogpiling on me, upvoting each others' comments, and generally being abject jerks to me when I DO respond (and abjectly rude if I do not). All to avoid any actual points I present and effort to silence dissent. And, of course, insisting that not one of them is saying something bad or insulting about me in the process of...doing that. A LOT of that. And that when I suggest anyone is attacking me, I'm TOTALLY wrong and no one is.

Btw: That would be the definition of gaslighting - prolonged and continuous psychological manipulation to convince the victim to question his own thoughts or view of reality. "People are attacking me!" <While and as part of attacking me> "No they aren't, it's all in your head." That actually DOES meet the definition of gaslighting.

The worst part is when I point this out and am called defensive or "playing the victim", and the worst worst, when the other person accuses me of just not making any rational point to begin with. Like why should I even bother? You tell me!

Let's look at your intial post again, shall we?

Ah, yes, so you can ignore the very thing you quote. But lets:

So far so good. Maybe others don't see it this way (like not feeling it resolved that well) but that's just your opinion . Wait... there's more...

...well, thank you for that, at least.

Weird... were are those hate posts? Why write this?

"all those"?

In your own words, tell me, what does THIS mean:

and I know others don't but simply have different tastes. And that's fine.

Your opinion: great

Thank...you...

The "best" part about Ren's posts are when he "quotes" stuff no one has said and replies to it. Making up strawmen.

My god...how can you be this lacking in self-awareness? You're literally quoting me saying things, accusing me of saying what I DIDN'T say, and ignoring what I did say. This is literally what you're doing, Making up strawmen. I've never personally known anyone so lacking in self-awareness before.

I'm sorry but a lot of your posts have strawmen arguments and gaslighting.

/sigh

You mean like all of what you're doing here?

You've been accusing me of saying things I didn't say - strawman - and gaslighting me.

Idk why they do but it's like their most visible feature by now.

Again, I'm literally commenting on your post here doing that. It's like your most visible feature at the moment.

Just like Healer changes. You can't please everyone. Why is one allowed to be given critique and one isn't?

Both are.

Serious question:

When have I, me, myself, personally ever said "critique is not allowed"?

At what point, in what post, have I EVER said those words?

And no, "You said it was hate!!" is not saying it was not allowed. And if THAT is your answer:

When have I, me, myself, personally ever said "ALL critique is hate"?

...and wouldn't that mean I was calling MYSELF a hater considering I have offered critiques of my own? How does it make sense in your mind that I'm holding a definition whereby I'm accusing myself of being a hater alongside the rest of you? Does that make sense?

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/sigh

No one's perfect, me no more than any other Human. But I'm not the ONLY one that makes mistakes. And it's not for lack of trying not to. But when some people are damned and determined to find something, anything, even if they have to make it up, to attack one over, it gets REALLLLLLLLY old. This is hardly the first time I've asked "When have I said X" and people not been able to actually provide anything but snarky one-liner answers despite having accused me of doing so.

I can't make perfect posts. Not possible.

But I'm generally not trying to be insulting or antagonistic to people. I only shift into that mode when I'm getting attacked - a lot, and unfairly - and after I've first tried a couple of posts of reasoned explanation, clarification, and polite rebuttal. Note after my first post here, despite being accused of calling everyone haters, my first responses were politely saying that I didn't say that. Though I will use people's words in reply to them if they fit their positions as well or better than my own.

Only when I was called a liar and told yes I was saying what I had just said I didn't, and then had someone else harping on about me being a bad faith gaslighter, did I get upset. It can be difficult to maintain composure when literally a dozen people are constantly harping on you and inventing ways to take everything you said as an insult and strawmanning and gaslighting you over and over again.

And tell me, which of you wouldn't?

I'm not MORE perfect than any of you are. So if you'd be upset being treated that way, you shouldn't expect that I wouldn't be. And when my first repose is explanation and discussion, and I only shift to antagonism after my efforts at politeness being roundly rebuffed, then perhaps it's possible I'm not the bad guy, it's the people rebuffing those attempts at olive branches that are.

...but I'm tired of saying THIS, too. As this hasn't been the first time, either...